Have we become too sensitive?

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GregD
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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#16

Post by GregD » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:59 pm

sarge wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:16 pm
Not only do Liberals tend to lie about what someone said and then kick the stuffing out of the strawman afterwards, they'll also claim that other people ignore science and that they never do, and then they'll ignore it all day long when it interferes with their narrative.
So you did not explicitly call me a liar. But it certainly looks to me that you are saying that "my kind" tend to be liars. Or am I misrepresenting what you said?

If you would, please review either of the two links I provided and indicate where either of them misrepresented the memo. Or for that matter where I misrepresented the memo.



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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#17

Post by sarge » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:11 am

GregD wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:59 pm
sarge wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:16 pm
Not only do Liberals tend to lie about what someone said and then kick the stuffing out of the strawman afterwards, they'll also claim that other people ignore science and that they never do, and then they'll ignore it all day long when it interferes with their narrative.
So you did not explicitly call me a liar. But it certainly looks to me that you are saying that "my kind" tend to be liars. Or am I misrepresenting what you said?

If you would, please review either of the two links I provided and indicate where either of them misrepresented the memo. Or for that matter where I misrepresented the memo.
The people reporting to you the contents of the memo have been repeatedly called out for putting out false information so that any given story fits a particular narrative.

When that repeatedly happens to sources I've used, I stop defending them, repeating them, and believing them.

What you do with the information they give you is your business.

Here is the entire memo in its original form, unedited and uninterpreted by Liberal biased sources. This is the stuff I read when controversies like these rise up. Then I make up my own mind. The first paragraph is revealing:
I value diversity and inclusion, am not denying that sexism exists, and don’t endorse using stereotypes. When addressing the gap in representation in the population, we need to look at population level differences in distributions. If we can’t have an honest discussion about this, then we can never truly solve the problem. Psychological safety is built on mutual respect and acceptance, but unfortunately our culture of shaming and misrepresentation is disrespectful and unaccepting of anyone outside its echo chamber. Despite what the public response seems to have been, I’ve gotten many personal messages from fellow Googlers expressing their gratitude for bringing up these very important issues which they agree with but would never have the courage to say or defend because of our shaming culture and the possibility of being fired. This needs to change.
I'm of the opinion that the Left leaning sources that have charaterized this memo as being anti-women and anti-diversity don't want people to have the courage to say what they think and support punishing people who do. IOW, they don't want things to change to a point where people have the courage to say what they think about the important issues of our time. The Left leaning media response to this memo reveals that what he says in it is entirely true, and its not limited to Google.
~Google’s political bias has equated the freedom from offense with psychological safety, but shaming into silence is the antithesis of psychological safety.

~This silencing has created an ideological echo chamber where some ideas are too sacred to be honestly discussed.
The lack of discussion fosters the most extreme and authoritarian elements of this ideology.

~Extreme: all disparities in representation are due to oppression

~Authoritarian: we should discriminate to correct for this oppression


~Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. Discrimination to reach equal representation is unfair, divisive, and bad for business.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#18

Post by sarge » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:20 am

But, there may be some hope. Some Left leaning sources are coming around and may be realizing that the Authoritarianism now running rampant through Leftist practices, if not the ideology, is driving people away. This New York Times editorial has some good commentary.
The fourth actor is the media. The coverage of the memo has been atrocious.

As Conor Friedersdorf wrote in The Atlantic, “I cannot remember the last time so many outlets and observers mischaracterized so many aspects of a text everyone possessed.” Various reporters and critics apparently decided that Damore opposes all things Enlightened People believe and therefore they don’t have to afford him the basic standards of intellectual fairness.

The mob that hounded Damore was like the mobs we’ve seen on a lot of college campuses. We all have our theories about why these moral crazes are suddenly so common. I’d say that radical uncertainty about morality, meaning and life in general is producing intense anxiety. Some people embrace moral absolutism in a desperate effort to find solid ground. They feel a rare and comforting sense of moral certainty when they are purging an evil person who has violated one of their sacred taboos.

Which brings us to Pichai, the supposed grown-up in the room. He could have wrestled with the tension between population-level research and individual experience. He could have stood up for the free flow of information. Instead he joined the mob. He fired Damore and wrote, “To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not O.K.”

That is a blatantly dishonest characterization of the memo. Damore wrote nothing like that about his Google colleagues. Either Pichai is unprepared to understand the research (unlikely), is not capable of handling complex data flows (a bad trait in a C.E.O.) or was simply too afraid to stand up to a mob.
Liberalism is being taken over by Extremism. Its visible on our college campuses and now in our Board Rooms. Its become almost a cliche to say it, but its true:

"This is how you got Trump."
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#19

Post by Polkster13 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:25 am

When I posted this, I meant "we" as people in general. I was not pointing a finger at anyone and saying that this or that person was any more or less sensitive than myself. I know I have bias and I know that others have bias. I also know that when I was in high school and took a debate class, we were taught to think rationally and argue effectively on a point we may or may not have agreed with and without a lot of emotion. It just feels like today I am being told to keep my head down and not say anything out loud that might in the least ways offend someone. I am not talking about spouting off hate speech. I am saying that if someone voices an opinion, then others who don't agree with them will shoot that opinion down and at the same time cast disparaging remarks and attacks on that persons character (like calling someone an "idiot", et cetera). They will also toss around labels to pigeon hole that person in a class of people that they feel is an undesirable group to them. I just find it appalling that people will verbally attack others in a very vicious way if they don't like what someone else is saying. I think part of the issue may be the fact that is is quite easy to sit back in your safe home and verbally attack someone else on the Internet because there are no reprisals. But I am also seeing this on the roadways through "road rage". I am just as guilty of this as the next person with getting very upset when someone cuts me off or does a "bone headed" display of not driving in what I think is a proper fashion. I struggle with this one all of the time. I could say it is because I drive in Austin, but that is no excuse for not driving "friendly"; regardless of how others drive.

My point is this. We live in one of the most affluent nations in the world. We have technology that is suppose to make our lives easier and give us more free time. We have it better than I would guess 98% of the population in the world and yet we as a people are not happy. We strive day after day to "live the dream" and be successful and happy. And yet we still don't have enough. I believe this nation in a large part (I am not saying everyone---just what I perceive is the vocal majority) has become a nation of takers. "What's in it for me?", not "What can I do for you?".

So my question is, what do you feel has made what I perceive is the "vocal majority" into being a group of takers (what is in it for me, syndrome), not caring for their fellow man and if you don't think like I do, then you are less of a person than me attitude (therefore I am going to call you names and put you down) that I see so prevalent in my day-to-day interaction with people around me as well as what I see on the news and most of the Internet forums (to the point I just don't even want to look at these forums any more---one of the reasons I like this place so much because that kind of stuff doesn't go on here).

I have seen in the past people get passionate about topics and take a stand for what they feel is right. I am okay with that. I feel as a citizen you have that right. But I have not seen the current level of vehement attacks on those people by others that don't agree with them. I guess it boils down to the derogatory name calling that is bothering me so much.

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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#20

Post by rhjanes » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:22 am

It seems a lot of news, is focused on people who want to be upset about something, almost anything. It must be a self-justification....or makes them feel alive....heck, makes them feel SOMETHING....
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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#21

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:07 pm

sarge wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:11 am
............................................................................
~This silencing has created an ideological echo chamber where some ideas are too sacred to be honestly discussed.
The lack of discussion fosters the most extreme and authoritarian elements of this ideology.

~Extreme: all disparities in representation are due to oppression

~Authoritarian: we should discriminate to correct for this oppression


~Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. Discrimination to reach equal representation is unfair, divisive, and bad for business.
[/quote]
Notice "may in part explain". Truer words were never spoken.

But I suppose that is neither here or there. Let's say he is totally wrong. If so, so what? The question is: is he allowed to think it? If so, is he allowed to let those thoughts out of his head without losing his career? Obviously, many from the liberal/left feel the answer to all those questions is: NO!
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Have we become too sensitive?

#22

Post by GregD » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:16 am

BillyBob66 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:07 pm
But I suppose that is neither here or there. Let's say he is totally wrong. If so, so what? The question is: is he allowed to think it? If so, is he allowed to let those thoughts out of his head without losing his career? Obviously, many from the liberal/left feel the answer to all those questions is: NO!
And many others from the liberal left feel the answer to all those questions is YES.

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