UQ to TQ Conversion

Top Quilts, Underquilts, Socks, and UQ Protectors
Post Reply
User avatar
ADVStrom14
Reactions:
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:27 am
Hammock: HH Backpackr Classic
Tarp: HH Hex 30D
Suspension: Webbing, Dutch Bling
Insulation: Costco, fleece, HHSS
Contact:

UQ to TQ Conversion

#1

Post by ADVStrom14 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:28 pm

I have an AHE Jarbridge underquilt but I am thinking about getting an HH supershelter. From what I am reading, the SS combined with my double bubble pad, and sleeping bag/quilt will be sufficient for all the cold weather I plan to be camping in. I have a mummy bag right now and I am not a big fan of it so I want to do something else.

Has anyone ever converted an UQ to a TQ? Or would it be sufficient or OK if I just used the UQ as an over quilt/blanket instead of a sewn and tapered TQ? The jarbridge UQ is exactly rectangle. I would just have to take out the shock cord and cord keepers.

Thanks!


I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

User avatar
sarge
Reactions:
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Houston, TX
Hammock:
Tarp:
Suspension:
Insulation:
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#2

Post by sarge » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:13 pm

I'm sure BillyBob will be in shortly to give you all the skinny on the HHSS and whether its better at the job than a Jarbridge, so I'll leave that up to him.

You could get some snap pliers and snaps from Ripstop By the Roll and run some snaps about 5" apart along the sides for about 20" at one end so you can snap it together, and use the drawcord at the end as a vented foot box.

But the Jarbridge is only 58" long, so it might be too short to use as a top quilt.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

User avatar
sarge
Reactions:
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Houston, TX
Hammock:
Tarp:
Suspension:
Insulation:
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#3

Post by sarge » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:18 pm

If you have a Costco nearby, you could get one of thier down throw blanket and make a good TQ using snaps as well. Total cost for tools, snaps, and throw blanket would be less than $50.

Here's how:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... freload=10
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

User avatar
ADVStrom14
Reactions:
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:27 am
Hammock: HH Backpackr Classic
Tarp: HH Hex 30D
Suspension: Webbing, Dutch Bling
Insulation: Costco, fleece, HHSS
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#4

Post by ADVStrom14 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:43 pm

sarge wrote:You could get some snap pliers and snaps from Ripstop By the Roll and run some snaps about 5" apart along the sides for about 20" at one end so you can snap it together, and use the drawcord at the end as a vented foot box.

But the Jarbridge is only 58" long, so it might be too short to use as a top quilt.
This was kind of what I had in mind. But you are right, I'm not sure the Jarbridge will be long enough but I figure I could try it and it would hopefully work for the short term.

Does BillyBob not like the HHSS? :o
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

User avatar
sarge
Reactions:
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Houston, TX
Hammock:
Tarp:
Suspension:
Insulation:
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#5

Post by sarge » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:59 pm

Billy Bob is kind of the resident expert on the HHSS
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#6

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:17 pm

ADVStrom14 wrote:
sarge wrote:You could get some snap pliers and snaps from Ripstop By the Roll and run some snaps about 5" apart along the sides for about 20" at one end so you can snap it together, and use the drawcord at the end as a vented foot box.

But the Jarbridge is only 58" long, so it might be too short to use as a top quilt.
This was kind of what I had in mind. But you are right, I'm not sure the Jarbridge will be long enough but I figure I could try it and it would hopefully work for the short term.

Does BillyBob not like the HHSS? :o
Hello ADV!

No, I love it! Maybe one of the relative few who feel that way about it. But I also feel only a relative few have ever really much tried to understand it and make it work. Over at my old stomping grounds, if you look you can find a real truck load of threads that go something like this: "I was cold at 45F in my new X Brand top of the line down UQ that cost several hundred $", something like that. Then some very experienced folks come in and start telling them what they might be doing wrong, things to try. Most get it figured out, some after a lot of trial and error, a few never do. But the point is, people seem to be far more willing to work it out for what I think is just more attractive to most folks: expensive downy goodness. It just seems so much nicer than a silnylon shell and an Open Cell Foam(OCF) pad, that it just seems like it MUST work better.

I'm not putting UQs down, I use UQs(AHE Jarbidge Climashield(CS) and both full length an short down JRBs and CS WB Yetis), down Speer PeaPods and HHSSs. I, and those I have outfitted with these, have had great results with all of them, each with some learning curve. Every one has worked fine for me, though again there was often some learning curve. Each has it's pros and cons. The HHSS is very competitive at the least, and the warmest/most wind-weather proof for the price(IMO of course), especially during the Oct sales.

I agree that the Jarbidge is too small to readily convert to a TQ, at least for 6'1" 200++ lb me. But maybe for someone smaller?

Why do you want to switch to a HHSS? Is the Jarbidge not working for you? They seem to be a pretty good UQ.

Are you using a Hennessy Hammock? I got a #2 HHSS to work quite well on a WB BB, but they are sort of custom fit fr the HHs.

If you have some specific questions re: HHSS, I'll be happy to try and answer them. Dirtwheels has also used HHSS.

Bill
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

dirtwheels
Reactions:
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:35 pm
Location: SC
Hammock: SLD, Sheltowee, Amok
Tarp: UGQ, Spinn Edge
Suspension: HF Straps & Dynema
Insulation: Downy Goodness

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#7

Post by dirtwheels » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:18 am

The HHSS is marketed as a 3 season solution much like the Jarbridge. I found the HHSS to be one of the best values for the $ out there. However I've never tried it on non-hennessey products.

Important considerations:

1) How low have you used your current Jarbridge? Is a 3 season or summer model?
2) Are you a cold sleeper?
3) What are the low temps you are planning on?

I have used a HHSS without a space blanket to the 30's, with a space blanket to the 20's using my older REI 15* bag, and using the over cover, 15* bag and a few extra clothes on and a 40* UQ below the HHSS into the low teens. The HHSS is a fine solution but it does have drawbacks, the pad is not really durable and the shock cord for the pad is a smaller size and I experienced some loss of elasticity. That said every October Hennessey has a sale and I picked one up for $100 which put's it at the retail price of the Jarbridge. However Paul at Arrowhead also puts the Jarbridge on sale annually for $75.

Basically you are looking at very similarly rated products, I think my HHSS weighed 25 oz. and packed fairly small but most have complained that the stock stuff sack was too small. I could make it work but I'm borderline OCD when it comes to packing things and still used another stuff sack. I also found that without removing the pad and neatly folding and rolling it to be too bulky for my preferences. I sold my Hennessey as it was somewhat finicky to hang regarding calf ridge, so I sold the HHSS since I prefer down underquilts.

If you are comfortable with your Jarbridge down to the temps you plan on camping in you may have your best bet. If you are not a fan of using a bag in the hammock and the Jarbridge works then the best next step may be to do a conversion. Bags are not as good a fit in a hammock as Top Quilts. I have to admit that I do not have a TQ rated below 30* - 35* so in cold temps I carry a 15* or 20* bag and I kind of like the way the hoods work in the cold. I'd rather have a quilt and a down hood to go with my down beanie but that's not in the budget at this time. We all compromise weight and performance based on budget IMO.

Check out the video's Hennessy put out on the HHSS and note that the over cover is no longer an included part of the HHSS and must be purchased separately. The over cover is an important component to use the HHSS on cold weather IMO. Even though the HHSS is billed as a 4 season product real 4 season use mandates the used of additional insulation being added to the HHSS such as jackets and clothing. In the end for me the bulk and it being designed for the Hennessy made me move on.

User avatar
ADVStrom14
Reactions:
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:27 am
Hammock: HH Backpackr Classic
Tarp: HH Hex 30D
Suspension: Webbing, Dutch Bling
Insulation: Costco, fleece, HHSS
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#8

Post by ADVStrom14 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:32 am

I do have a Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker Classic. I was drawn to the HHSS because of the waterproof/windproof aspect and (what appears to be) a little less bulk/loft - although @dirtwheels after reading your post that may not be the case. I have tried to use the Jarbridge but honestly it's been hotter than hell in July here in balmy wet and humid eastern NC so it was hard to try to get it adjusted without melting. I also liked the fact that the HHSS actually goes end to end and, lengthwise, doesn't need the adjustability that the UQ will need. I have the double bubble pad for the HH and wondered if that would work well in the HHSS.

1) How low have you used your current Jarbridge? Is a 3 season or summer model?
The JB is a 3 season UQ but I have not used it in low temps.
2) Are you a cold sleeper?
I'm usually not a cold sleeper, I'm quite a warm sleeper actually. I am a little nervous about this though because temps have been in the high 70's to mid 80's the last week or so and I have chilled easily. I think it's honestly that I am just so acclimated to this insane hot weather that the sudden dip has thrown my internal thermometer for a loop. But usually when I sleep I have the air turned down to 68-70 and I'm sleeping with a light sheet or none at all. I realize this is inside in my bed but it's a relative indicator.
3) What are the low temps you are planning on?
My goal this year is to complete the 12 Nights challenge but even if I camp in eastern NC, our winter only seldom goes below 30*. I'm not that hard core...yet. :D

If I played with it (and I intend to) I am sure that the JB will work for me. I think my initial desire to move to the HHSS was to have a little more weatherproofing and hopefully less bulk than an UQ AND TQ. But then again I guess if the tarp is set up appropriately, there should not be too much concern about the UQ getting wet.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#9

Post by BillyBob66 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:41 pm

ADVStrom14 wrote:I do have a Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker Classic. I was drawn to the HHSS because of the waterproof/windproof aspect and (what appears to be) a little less bulk/loft - although @dirtwheels after reading your post that may not be the case. I have tried to use the Jarbridge but honestly it's been hotter than hell in July here in balmy wet and humid eastern NC so it was hard to try to get it adjusted without melting. I also liked the fact that the HHSS actually goes end to end and, lengthwise, doesn't need the adjustability that the UQ will need. I have the double bubble pad for the HH and wondered if that would work well in the HHSS.

1) How low have you used your current Jarbridge? Is a 3 season or summer model?
The JB is a 3 season UQ but I have not used it in low temps.
2) Are you a cold sleeper?
I'm usually not a cold sleeper, I'm quite a warm sleeper actually. I am a little nervous about this though because temps have been in the high 70's to mid 80's the last week or so and I have chilled easily. I think it's honestly that I am just so acclimated to this insane hot weather that the sudden dip has thrown my internal thermometer for a loop. But usually when I sleep I have the air turned down to 68-70 and I'm sleeping with a light sheet or none at all. I realize this is inside in my bed but it's a relative indicator.
3) What are the low temps you are planning on?
My goal this year is to complete the 12 Nights challenge but even if I camp in eastern NC, our winter only seldom goes below 30*. I'm not that hard core...yet. :D

If I played with it (and I intend to) I am sure that the JB will work for me. I think my initial desire to move to the HHSS was to have a little more weatherproofing and hopefully less bulk than an UQ AND TQ. But then again I guess if the tarp is set up appropriately, there should not be too much concern about the UQ getting wet.
Let me repeat this at the start: Your JRB Jabridge should be more than adequate for any of your listed requirements, and you already have it. I have one, and though I have not yet managed to put it to the maximum test yet, I have done so with the original WB Yeti which was insulated the 1st generation of Climashield XT, the JB is 2nd generation CS(Apex), supposedly slightly better. The Yeti came with removable layers of CS, 2.5 oz each total 10 oz. I have been fine in the mid/high 40s using just ONE of those layers, at a total of 2.5 oz/sq.yd. of CS XT. I would expect 2 of those layers to easily take me into the 20s, and indeed it has done so for my son, 30s should be easy. A fellow named Cannibal tested the prototype CS Yeti, and using all 4 layers( 10 oz/sq.yd) took that UQ well below zero no problems, though he admitted to being a VERY warm sleeper. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the JB come with 6 oz/sq.yd CS Apex? Thus, at least for me, I would expect no problems into the 20s with the JB, ASSUMING PERFECT UQ SETUP. But that last part applies to all UQs, and HHSS. You must know what you are doing with all of them

Now to the HHSS in case you still are thinking of going that route. Your 1st sentence from above ( IMHO ) is indeed the # 1 benefit the HHSS has over all other systems at similar temp ratings, weight and possibly bulk. To get this amount of wind and wind blown rain/snow resistance for any other 21 oz (about what mine is) UQ, you are either going to have to add a separate under cover(UC) of some type ( + dollars, weight, bulk) or use a much larger tarp (+ $, wt/bulk) than is needed with this system. With even a large tarp, wind can shift, or if using doors condensation can be a factor. Even with an 11X10 rectangular tarp I have been caught with ground splash or a wind shift sending the wind blowing right in the open end of the tarp hours after set up. But I have, really accidentally but also on purpose, put the HHSS to the test, even with the tiny HH tarp, and it has not failed me. Saved my butt the last night of my 1st week of hammock camping ever, up in the high Rockies. If I was going to camp with my buddies in bear country(and I preferred to), there were only two trees available to me, just a few feet from the lake, where the wind was howling hard across the lake and into the foot end of my little 11 oz stock HH diamon shaped tarp. No accessory top cover then, just the UC and pad and space blanket, and a wind resistant sleeping bag shell. I later found out some of my buds were having a good laugh about how I was going to freeze and making bets on how long I would make it before having to abandon the hammock for the ground. Turned out I was the only one in camp that had a good night, the only one warm and comfy and sleeping in the next morning. Every one else was up early wanting to get the heck out of that cold, windy place. I highly suspect that with a typical 20F down UQ, and with out a tarp large enough to close doors on the end and go snug down to the ground, I would indeed have been shivering from wind chill, as the wind blew right through my UQ.

As for the very handy top cover- especially for use with the smallest tarps - it was an extra accessory even when I got my first HH and HHSS back in 2006. So I did not get one for several years. It is strictly a top warmth/wind blocking accessory, which it does very well for a mere 3 oz or so. It is NOT water proof, but fairly water resistant and wind proof. Here it is after some rain blew on it:
Image
It adds top warmth and blocks wind from hitting the top of your bag/TQ. In fact, it may allow you to get away with a lighter TQ, or just be warmer in whatever you have. It does nothing for back/butt warmth, and should not be considered if you are comparing to UQs, trying to keep it apples to apples as much as possible, since it will add a small amount of bulk and weight and cost, comparing to just UQs that only keep your back warm. And since it's use turns the HHSS into a sock(more or less), condensation must be considered. When I set my winter personal best( PB ) using the HHSS including TC, I was bone dry, zero condensation, but I was using vapor barrier clothing and a so called frost bib to catch the moisture from my breath. I was expecting a lot of condensation/frost, but I had none at 6F. I was also plenty warm, using clothing and a 21 oz size long Golight TQ.

As for bulk, I have found the system compresses pretty well. Here is the undercover and pad when I have gone to the trouble to get them both back inside the original sack:
Image
How does that compare to a 30F UQ and UC or UQ protector for volume? Not bad I'm thinking.

But I rarely bother with that. I either use snake skins for every thing but the pad, removing the pad and putting it with other items in a compression stuff sack, or I take the entire HHSS and TQ etc and stuff them into a large dry sack pack liner inside my pack, or stuff the entire thing into a separate compression dry sack. Here is a picture of an entire sleep system including the 1:HHSS with 2:one Explorer UL hammock, 3: HHSS OCF pad, plus 4: the extra kidney/torso pads, 5: a space blanket, 6:the overcover, 7:the undercover and 8: one Golight Ultra20 TQ all in one Heavy duty coated nylon sack, total weight 5 lb 7 oz. That is heavier than need be because I had it in a heavy duty coated nylon compression sack(side compression only) from WM. I' sure I could have compressed this a bit more with the right sack. Still, this is NOT just the HHSS, it is everything for a cold nights sleep:
Image

People are all over the place as for the rating of the HHSS. For me, about freezing and no lower with just the one standard pad and space blanket, at about 21 oz or so(compare to weight of full length UQs rated to 30F or so, and compare to JB UQ weight, but remember it is windproof and water resistant due to the UC). Some people can not reach 40F and some make the 20s. But whatever the rating for you turns out to be, remember it is super easy to stuff insulated jacket or pants- anything not being slept in- down below the pad to easily pick up another 10-20F. Or, if I just add the HH kidney Torso pads- about 3 oz?- I am good well below 20F even before I add some clothing. My personal best was a very warm(felt warm to me) 6F by adding the kidney/torso pads(no added clothing). But I was wearing VB clothing, and who knows how much that helped. I think I could have gone below zero, and if I added clothing down below? Who knows. I don't know if these are still available, got mine about 07:
Image

Hope that helps!
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#10

Post by BillyBob66 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:57 pm

Warning: since the HHSS is designed to be used with a 2 oz space blanket(SB) over the top of the HH pad, it behooves you to understand Vapor barrier theory. Which is not hard to do, but requires a little reading for most folks who have never done it that way. Failing that, at least follow HH directions explicitly, putting the space blanket as the layer right on top of all insulation, making it the top layer that contacts the hammock. Since the outer layer- the UC- is a waterproof/windproof silnylon(like your tarp) it will function as a vapor barrier. It will be ice cold, and any body vapor that makes it through the insulation will condense against that cold VB, and sooner or later you will end up wet, I guarantee. But there is no need for that to happen. A VB on top of the insulation is kept warm, and condensation does not much happen on a warm surface. It also greatly increases warmth by knocking out or decreasing evaporative cooling. Even if it did condense, the condensed vapor(water) can not get past the space blanket/VB and into your precious insulation. If you are not willing to use that SB, or maybe thin, light weight VB clothing I suggest you use something else. I usually got away with no SB, though with less warmth. But then one night in the Olympic NP, in the high 40s, I did not bother with the SB and- though I slept plenty warm, the foot of my bag and pad were SOAKED. Luckily, being synthetic, both quickly dried, I added the SB like I had been told to by the designer, and was bone dry and very warm the rest of the trip.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
ADVStrom14
Reactions:
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:27 am
Hammock: HH Backpackr Classic
Tarp: HH Hex 30D
Suspension: Webbing, Dutch Bling
Insulation: Costco, fleece, HHSS
Contact:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#11

Post by ADVStrom14 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:05 pm

First off BillyBob66, thank you so much for the info and detailed response.

The vapor barrier and condensation aspect is something that I have considered because I can't seem to get my mind wrapped all the way around it. I understand the concept but then I turn around and get confused again. I promise I am a relatively intelligent person! :lol:

I think I will just have to do some exploration and research this fall as the temperatures drop. I have only been hammocking for about 4-5 months now so I have not hit the cold temps yet. But I really want to.

I have watched all 4 of Tom Hennessy's YouTube vids about setting up the HHSS and how it's supposed to work and I wonder, what would be the difference between using the space blanket and the radiant double bubble pad instead? Well besides added weight and bulk?

I had not really considered the top cover although if I do decide to go out in more extreme cold, I could see where that would be a benefit. I will have to do some more research on the vapor barrier clothing before that because with our relative humidity, even in the winter time, I could see condensation being a serious problem there.

The funny thing about all this is that I am reading all these details about UQ's, TQ's, covers, sleeping bags, super shelters and get kind of overwhelmed with it all. Then I hear my dad's voice in the background (who is not at all a camping fan) saying, "Why are you worried with all that when you have a nice warm house you can stay in?!" :lol:
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

User avatar
GregD
Reactions:
Posts: 523
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Hammock:
Tarp:
Suspension:
Insulation:

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#12

Post by GregD » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:43 pm

ADVStrom14 wrote:The funny thing about all this is that I am reading all these details about UQ's, TQ's, covers, sleeping bags, super shelters and get kind of overwhelmed with it all.
As long as you are having fun.

If you typically go on short trips of a few days or less, and cancel if the weather forecast predicts nasty weather (wind with either rain or cold), your current setup will work just fine. If the mummy bag doesn't work for you get a nice top quilt; if you sew consider a DIY climishield TQ for around $80. You are likely to find it works good enough for all the weather conditions that you want to camp in.

Even if you eventually get an HHSS to use when there is a risk of weather too rough for your current UQ you are still likely to continue using your current UQ on trips when rough weather is unlikely. There is no one perfect setup for all possible conditions.

dirtwheels
Reactions:
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:35 pm
Location: SC
Hammock: SLD, Sheltowee, Amok
Tarp: UGQ, Spinn Edge
Suspension: HF Straps & Dynema
Insulation: Downy Goodness

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#13

Post by dirtwheels » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:47 pm

You sound like you are really set temperature wise on the UQ, but are mostly unhappy with your sleeping bag. It also sounds like you have some concern with staying dry and keeping your kit dry.

I am just south of Charlotte, so I sympathize on the warm weather.

As for the HHSS being water proof I think the bottom fabric cover was water resistant but I don't think the over cover was, really not sure about that though. BB still has his and hopefully will shed light on that. I'm not trying to talk you out of or into anything, but am relating my experience with the product. To me, my UQ's just work better, and they're down so less bulky. I pack my hammock with the bottom entry bugnet attached, TQ and pillow inside the hammock, and UQ attached in a DRy bag a lot like BB's pic.

After choosing dry-down UQ's as my primary choice of insulation due to the compact-ability and the calf ridge on my HH Explorer UL dropping the HHSS was a logical progression. I still believe the HHSS is a good product, I just prefer down. And even after you buy the over cover a tarp is required. As for the non-adjustable nature of the HHSS it requires some adjustment in setup and the pad can move and require shifting when you get it sometimes. I'm not saying that the HHSS is a bad product at all, I just don't find it as flexible as a dry-down UQ.

Have you experienced difficulty keeping the quilt in place?

Have you had problems staying dry? Ind rainy weather I hang my hammock just a little higher to mitigate splash on the UQ, and I hang the tarp a little closer to the hammock if I'm expecting wind and heavy rain, storm mode if you will. My go to tarp is only 10.5' long and 7.5' wide, I do have doors I can use but almost never carry more than one side. So far I've stayed dry in pretty heavy rains and I have no UQ protector yet.

What tarp are you using? If you are a warm sleeper you could probably take the jarbridge into the 20's with a space blanket between it and your hammock.

Enjoy experimenting...
ADVStrom14 wrote:I do have a Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker Classic. I was drawn to the HHSS because of the waterproof/windproof aspect and (what appears to be) a little less bulk/loft - although @dirtwheels after reading your post that may not be the case. I have tried to use the Jarbridge but honestly it's been hotter than hell in July here in balmy wet and humid eastern NC so it was hard to try to get it adjusted without melting. I also liked the fact that the HHSS actually goes end to end and, lengthwise, doesn't need the adjustability that the UQ will need. I have the double bubble pad for the HH and wondered if that would work well in the HHSS.

1) How low have you used your current Jarbridge? Is a 3 season or summer model?
The JB is a 3 season UQ but I have not used it in low temps.
2) Are you a cold sleeper?
I'm usually not a cold sleeper, I'm quite a warm sleeper actually. I am a little nervous about this though because temps have been in the high 70's to mid 80's the last week or so and I have chilled easily. I think it's honestly that I am just so acclimated to this insane hot weather that the sudden dip has thrown my internal thermometer for a loop. But usually when I sleep I have the air turned down to 68-70 and I'm sleeping with a light sheet or none at all. I realize this is inside in my bed but it's a relative indicator.
3) What are the low temps you are planning on?
My goal this year is to complete the 12 Nights challenge but even if I camp in eastern NC, our winter only seldom goes below 30*. I'm not that hard core...yet. :D

If I played with it (and I intend to) I am sure that the JB will work for me. I think my initial desire to move to the HHSS was to have a little more weatherproofing and hopefully less bulk than an UQ AND TQ. But then again I guess if the tarp is set up appropriately, there should not be too much concern about the UQ getting wet.

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: UQ to TQ Conversion

#14

Post by BillyBob66 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:18 pm

ADVStrom14 wrote: First off BillyBob66, thank you so much for the info and detailed response.
You are most welcome. I have not discussed the subject in detail n a long time, probably a year or maybe two. Thank you for getting my brain working on this subject once again.
ADVStrom14 wrote: The vapor barrier and condensation aspect is something that I have considered because I can't seem to get my mind wrapped all the way around it. I understand the concept but then I turn around and get confused again. I promise I am a relatively intelligent person! :lol:
Welcome to a large club, one whose members can not get their minds wrapped around VBs! ;) I'd say that is the majority of the population. There is something down right counterintuitive about it, isn't there? It just seems natural that for comfort, warmth and dryness that clothing/insulation should be breathable, allowing our bodies vapor to flow right out to the outside and even wicking any actual liquid water out away from our body, does it not? And there is certainly something to be said for that approach. And it is guaranteed that doing VBs wrong will lead to misery. ( For example, using only one(rather than two) VB in an HHSS, and that one being the sil-nylon Undercover. Keeps the wind and moisture out, but sadly keeps the vapor in, which once it contacts this COLD VB readily condenses into water, now trapped in the insulation. Cold and wet! I can not even estimate how many people this mistake has chased screaming in horror away from that POS HHSS. In the early days, before there was much info out there about correct usage, there were a fair # who tried it who absolutely hated it, even dog cussed it. I now, I was one of the early users trying to discuss my success with it over at another forum, and I was at least occasionally subject to ridicule or worse by all the folks who knew danged well it could not work, especially compared to 2.5" of downy goodness! :) There are now many more successful users than just me who concede that it is at the very least competitive for the weight and more than competitive for the price. But back in 06/07 or even later, it was hard to find a good word about them. But I am convinced many people did not like the looks compared to thick down, it just did not look like it could be as warm, even if a much thinner CCF pad could be. And I am convinced many who tried it and hated it suffered failure due to a lack of/wrong use of, VB/SB. It got to where I sometimes could not resist sarcasm( my apologies to them) when responding to some one who was wet and cold at 45F with "I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you did not use the SB". And 90% of the time, they had not. Often because they did not like space blankets! :roll: But, the system requires a space blanket or something similar! :roll: Oh well, it's not all their fault. Our education about staying warm usually leads us to the exact opposite of VBs, so naturally it is a hard concept to grasp.
Off Topic
I think I will just have to do some exploration and research this fall as the temperatures drop. I have only been hammocking for about 4-5 months now so I have not hit the cold temps yet. But I really want to.

I have watched all 4 of Tom Hennessy's YouTube vids about setting up the HHSS and how it's supposed to work and I wonder, what would be the difference between using the space blanket and the radiant double bubble pad instead? Well besides added weight and bulk?
Experimentation, done in a safe environment, that's the ticket! Learn what works for you before heading into the wild! And believe me, your JB is more than capable, though it also must be set up correctly, with little room for error. But yes, at least theoretically, the Bubble pad should work as a replacement for the SB. I'm pretty sure it is a VB, so it should function that way, plus it has some insulation of it's own to add. I have not tried it. However, I have read from a very few others who said the SB worked better in the HHSS. Not at all sure why that would be. Because the SB is wider and goes over the edge of the HH pad? Doing a better job of keeping condensation out of the UC and insulation? And is the bubble pad a radiant reflector like the SB? Don't know. But what the heck, at $2-5 and 2-3 ozs for a SB, why mess with the plan? Unless of course you just want to for fun to see what will happen.
Off Topic
I had not really considered the top cover although if I do decide to go out in more extreme cold, I could see where that would be a benefit.
Few people get an OC with their HHSS. It can be very beneficial for top side warmth and wind blocking. The time I used it to set my personal best(PB) of 6F, it seemed to be a big help, but I'm not sure how much was the OC and how much was my VB clothing. One way or another I was laughing at 6F under a light TQ good for maybe 30F by itself. Definitely could have gone colder. Have been a lot colder at 20-30F!
Off Topic
I will have to do some more research on the vapor barrier clothing before that because with our relative humidity, even in the winter time, I could see condensation being a serious problem there.
Yes, you will need to educate yourself on the entire concept, if you are like most folks you do not understand it.(no offense, neither did I for many years).

You see, it is irrelevant what the humidity is when using VB clothing very close to your skin. I am in MS, humidity central. OK, picture this: as you sit in your room and type, your skin- head to toe- produces a microclimate of vapor/humidity, that keeps your skin from drying out. Any liquid evaporates, and takes heat away from your body, known as evaporative cooling. Much as an air conditioner or swamp cooler works. But, now your skin is dry again, so this evaporated(or maybe just wicked away) moisture is replaced. Then it quickly evaporates, and is replaced, ad infinitum until you run out of moisture. Now add the thinnest possible polyester or wool longjohn layer next to your skin(just for comfort, feels nicer against skin, not required ) and cover with a VB shirt. Regardless of whether the outside humidity is 10% or 90%, the humidity inside the VB, next to your skin, quickly reaches 100%. As soon as this happens, your body stops producing moisture to keep your skin moist. Now, if the VB is warm from your skin, no condensation will happen. Just like when it is 95% humidity and 95F, there is no condensation on the outside of your car window. Maybe inside, where the surface is cold from AC, but never outside where it is warm. Definitely condensation on your non-insulated glass of iced tea, never on your cup of hot coffee, no matter what the humidity. Although, if you over-heat, then you will sweat, and the layer close to your skin will be wet(but warm!). But if you do sweat, would you rather that moisture stay next to your skin, or soak yur insulation? ( how often do folks have to worry about over heating sleeping outside in freezing weather! That is not often a concern other than with VB use!) But if you sweat from too much insulation, you probably won't know it, as it will be wicked away into your insulation, slowly eroding the warmth. Or more often, your vapor travels out into the outre layers of the insulation until it is cold enough for condensation to occur.

I have found that I can sit around in my house, in my VB shirt, and have no condensation or sweat, assuming the house is not on the warm side, like 75F or over. I can sit outside on a cool day with just the VB shirt and stay dry, or on cooler days with added layers until I add too much.
Off Topic
The funny thing about all this is that I am reading all these details about UQ's, TQ's, covers, sleeping bags, super shelters and get kind of overwhelmed with it all. Then I hear my dad's voice in the background (who is not at all a camping fan) saying, "Why are you worried with all that when you have a nice warm house you can stay in?!" :lol:
I know, I have heard the same from my wife for many years! Oh well, it is fun for me to talk about, for some reason! Hope it helps!
http://warmlite.com/vapor-barrier-clothing/ ( caution at this web site, they are- or used to be- nudists and occasionally you can tell! )
http://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-barr ... plication/
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

Post Reply

Return to “Insulation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest