Ummmmmmmm

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Thought I'd do something constructive while drinking my morning coffee, so I decided to write a little something every day I'm not out in the woods. Just keep in mind, this is stuff I'm writing before I've finished my morning coffee
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sarge
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Ummmmmmmm

#1

Post by sarge » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:19 am

I haven't posted much here, but this one demands that I do. I just read this in a Facebook backpacking group:
Please use reusable water containers, plastic water bottles are terrible for many reasons.
I am tempted to reply something along the lines of:

"Please re-use your plastic water bottles so that they can become re-usable and not be so terrible."


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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#2

Post by hikehunter » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:20 am

Sounds good to me.
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#3

Post by Scott » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:19 pm

I wonder what they had in mind? Nalgene? aluminum bottles? animal skins?
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#4

Post by sarge » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:02 pm

Plastic Bottle Boy Please use reusable water containers, plastic water bottles are terrible for many reasons

Me Ummmm—aren’t plastic water bottles reusable?

Plastic Bottle Boy Sure are
Anything is reusable

Me I ask because all of my water containers are plastic. I use primarily SmartWater bottles.

Plastic Bottle Boy How long do they last?

Me Six or 7 uses at least

Plastic Bottle Boy
How do you feel about that?

Me Pretty good. They weigh lots less than the nalgenes I used to use (which are also made of plastic) and lots cheaper.

Me Makes more sense than carrying metal, and a lot safer than carrying glass—what do you suggest we use instead of plastic?

Plastic Bottle Boy Why does metal not make sense?

Me Its heavy. Heavy means less miles. Less miles means more consumption because you have to be out longer to get from A to B. It also means higher consumption levels of both food and water. Higher consumption of food means higher production of waste, both human waste and trash.

Plastic Bottle Boy Lol

Plastic Bottle Boy Im done. You won troll
At which point he blocked me from his Facebook.

Apparently, he thinks metal is the answer.

Look, I do get what he's talking about, its the reason why I re-use my Smart Water bottles (plus,I'm a Cheap Old Fart). But my economic reasoning there IS sound (not trollish). Carrying more weight DOES result in less miles and it DOES lead to higher rates of consumption of both food and waste. Food, and food containers requires energy to produce. If I consume more food in the wods, not only do I produce more trash that needs to be taken out, I produce more poop---and every terd I make in the woods stays there (in a cathole)---or I could carry them out in a bag (also made of plastic) which I'm not going to do (and only the most bunny hoggingest of the bunny huggers will, no matter what they all say).

If he'd had an open mind I'd have explained a few more things to him:

If every hiker and backpacker out there used commercial water bottles to transport their water, reused those bottles 5 or 6 times, and then sent them to the recyler; there would be no need to produce Nagele bottles or metal canteens (both of which also take energy to produce), and neither of which bio-degrade as quickly as commercial water bottles. What you're doing is causing more production for items that see limited use within a small sector of the population that could be just as well addressed by using things that are found in day to day life. If you are using common household items while backpacking and hiking, your "footprint" is a good deal smaller than if all of your stuff is sitting in a (plastic) bin in your garage waiting for the next time the wife lets you go camping.

But in the society we have now, the "meme answer" to the "How do you feel about that?" question is what is going to dictate choices rather than thinking things through.
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#5

Post by gmcpcs » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:04 pm

I remember the "plastic vs paper" question from the grocery sacker a few years ago. Now, you can snobbily look down your nose at those people who don't bring their own canvas bags. I tend to reuse almost everything, my "smart" water bottles get bleached occasionally, and go for multiple uses.

I thought at one time there was supposed to be cost analysis studies before new regs were put in place, like all the way back to the ore leaving the ground?

I would think the metal or nalgene bottles are more of a cost factor than a flimsy water bottle. Well, it does pollute the ocean.

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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#6

Post by kev137 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:40 pm

I work at an aluminum re-melt where we melt down and cast post industrial aluminum( think bleachers, door frames, tent poles, conduit, siding, etc.) into billets. Even though we use less energy to re-melt ( sorta like recycling it) than it takes to extract aluminum from boxite dug out of the ground, we are still using lots of fuel to run our furnaces and lots of energy to run our equipment. So using metal still contributes pollution. Even recycled metals. Reusing an item makea more sense than sending it straight to the recycling bin. The energy/ pollution output is actually reduced because you are using it multiple times before disposal. I don't reuse water bottles yet but on my next trip i probably will. I did buy one of my nalgene bottles i carry from the thrift store for a nickle. That's kinda like recycling right?
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#7

Post by Idaho Hanger » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:16 pm

I have to agree with sarge. I buy a Smartwater bottle, drink the water, use the bottle for months and months until it's banged up and wrinkled and dirty, then it gets recycled.

It reminds me of having a guy in a Prius sneer at my "gas guzzling waste of resources". I have a 1985 Toyota 4 runner that's totally recycled. It was headed to the junkyard with a blown up motor, bought it for $600, spent $3k overhauling the entire engine, now I get 23mpg in a vehicle that's RECYCLED. It will rust away eventually because there isn't much plastic, as opposed to the "environmentally responsible" car that's made out of tons of plastic.

It's like electric cars. If you live in the west where hydroelectric power is common, then an electric car will reduce your carbon footprint. If you live in an area where the power comes from coal fired plants, the emmissions created to generate the electricity to charge the car are more than the emmissions generated by a gasoline powered car.

Besides, how much plastic is in that Nalgene bottle? I know they weigh 6 times what a Smartwater bottle weighs.....
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#8

Post by GalliaType1Hiker » Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:51 pm

I just use a water bladder. Never use bottles.

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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#9

Post by rhjanes » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:25 pm

I have a Dansani bottle I've been using for like 8 months. I take it to the gym like 4 or 5 days a week.....
My wife runs through a case of water bottle like twice a month. She recycles them all, but......
Hiking, Camelbak's and/or Smart water bottles.
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#10

Post by Scuba » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:32 pm

Fred water bottle. Image
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#11

Post by Calait » Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:46 pm

GalliaType1Hiker wrote:I just use a water bladder. Never use bottles.

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I also use a bladder pack when outdoors, this bladder has been replaced once in 10 years or so, I plan to start using an aluminum bottle to boil while out on overnight trips. During most of my outings I pack out more than I carry in, to include food, wonder if the environmentalist can say the same. :oops:
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#12

Post by Rick TDBT » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:34 am

Scuba wrote:Fred water bottle. Image
Wonder if the Sawyer mini would fit that cap?
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Re: Ummmmmmmm

#13

Post by Mophead » Tue May 17, 2016 8:38 pm

How many carbon points does it set you back when you put something like wine or kombucha in your "fancy bottle" and then have to throw it away because everything out of it tastes like crap?

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