So I Get This PM on Facebook

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Thought I'd do something constructive while drinking my morning coffee, so I decided to write a little something every day I'm not out in the woods. Just keep in mind, this is stuff I'm writing before I've finished my morning coffee
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So I Get This PM on Facebook

#1

Post by sarge » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:04 am

I opened my Facebook yesterday to see a Private message there.
Why are you such a jerk?
Well now, there's something to ponder over your morning's coffee. Several responses immediately ran through my mind. I settled on this one:
Its an interesting question. Why not come out and spend some time around a campfire with me and we can discuss it. We'll be teaching a young person about backpacking and your experience and diversity of opinion would be welcome viewtopic.php?f=36&p=1375#p1375
I got this response:
Will you be teaching tea party politics too?
So, apparently, this person whom I have never met and with whom I am not Friends on Facebook, thought enough about me to look at my Facebook page and saw my posts there. Those of you who are Freinds with me know that I am in no way ashamed of my politics. Apparenlty this gentleman thinks I should be.

But I think the difference between me and this guy is that I don't make determinations of the worth or value of a fellow human being, or even whether or not they are an actual jerk, based on thier politics--even if they don't agree with mine. Your beleifs don't make you a jerk---being a jerk makes you a jerk, and I've known enough jerks of all political persuasions to be fairly confident in saying that.

Oh, and for the record: while I am sympathetic to much of what the Tea Party espouses, my actual politics lean more Libertarian with a definite Conservative core. But people who spend time with me around a campfire rather than making snap decisions based on some paragrpah sized memes and headlines pasted into a Facebook feed probably know that.


You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#2

Post by UncleMJM » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:28 am

I really didn't intend for you to repost my PM…

oh wait,

we're already friends,

so that wasn't mine. :D

Folk don't need to agree about everything but there's no need to be disagreeable. I look forward to our next campfire conversation.

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#3

Post by rhjanes » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:38 am

Gathering information and picking politics based on FB......or any "social" media........really bad idea.... :shock:
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#4

Post by Scott » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:48 am

I had a family member who got to be VERY much a political activist. Everything that was said on the opposite side in his opinion was either corrupt, fraud, evil, ignorant, whatever. There was no basis for conversation. Everything was demonization. In retrospect, I have been known to have strong opinions myself, and in the right company, I share them openly. In mixed company, I try to have a civil discussion, while not backing down from the facts or personal impact a certain person or policy has had on me.
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#5

Post by Roche » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:03 pm

So disagreeing on politics makes the other guy a jerk.

Hey, that's a compliment compared to a typical left winger's attitude.

On a good day lefties believe you want to starve children and poison the water supply because you don't want to raise funding or change a water standard. Yet they were fine with the funding and water standard the day before. Still waiting to come across a starving child or poisoned water due to a lack of additional funding or changed standard.

By the way, I'm starving on a diet of poisoned water - please send your donation to Roche c/o HammockHangers.net and I will send you a PM saying "(insert name here) cares and is making a difference in the life of Roche. Won't you help too?"

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#6

Post by sarge » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:29 pm

Scott wrote:I had a family member who got to be VERY much a political activist. Everything that was said on the opposite side in his opinion was either corrupt, fraud, evil, ignorant, whatever. There was no basis for conversation. Everything was demonization. In retrospect, I have been known to have strong opinions myself, and in the right company, I share them openly. In mixed company, I try to have a civil discussion, while not backing down from the facts or personal impact a certain person or policy has had on me.
Well, the only solace there is that demonizing someone's opinion before actually hearing it is a tacit admission that your arguments aren't any good. Its hard to take solace in that when there's somebody screaming at you calling you the Devil incarnate, but there it is.

Roche wrote:So disagreeing on politics makes the other guy a jerk.

Hey, that's a compliment compared to a typical left winger's attitude.

On a good day lefties believe you want to starve children and poison the water supply because you don't want to raise funding or change a water standard. Yet they were fine with the funding and water standard the day before. Still waiting to come across a starving child or poisoned water due to a lack of additional funding or changed standard.

By the way, I'm starving on a diet of poisoned water - please send your donation to Roche c/o HammockHangers.net and I will send you a PM saying "(insert name here) cares and is making a difference in the life of Roche. Won't you help too?"

Similarly I just want people to know that I am a Rich Man trapped in a Poor Man's body. You can help liberate me from this Identity Crisis I'm having and become the person I was meant to be. Just subscribe to my YouTube Channel under 10,000 assumed names and watch each video 10,000 times under each name, and I should be on my way. No need to send money----
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#7

Post by SmilingBeard » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:33 am

It's funny to me when a person can not see the "Jerkness" inside of them when they do things like this…like all of a sudden everyone has the right to point fingers at everyone self with out looking in the mirror first…

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#8

Post by SGT Rock » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:56 pm

As I drink my morning coffee and read this I'll just pass on something I learned years ago running Whiteblaze, take it for what it is worth....

Politics will ruin a board. I say that with great sadness as I was the one that constantly tried to hold a free speech standard on WhiteBlaze as it was first opening up and growing. But after a couple of years it became painfully obvious that some people could not separate politics from their opinion about people and from that their attitude about people's every decision. I'd like to see this experiment work, however if it does start to get going what you will see is some people that gravitate only towards talking politics and eventually you will see threads that have nothing to do with politics start to have fights (and I do mean fights) spill over to the point where something as inane as a thread about "Do you have a frying pan lid on your cook pot?" start to get comments like "The only reason you carry a frying pan is because you think pots with lids are some sort of liberal conspiracy to keep everyone from enjoying meat." Believe me, I lived it. It will turn off people that want to talk about hammocks and camping and leave their politics at the door. You will get people eventually that no longer see the site as something about hammocks, but a place to push whatever their political agenda is and leave hammocking and backpacking at the door.

When it started getting this bad we ended up moving politics to a forum where you could only opt in, otherwise it was invisible to others. But even with that, we had these "flair ups" where if we were not monitoring the board, we would eventually get reported post(s) and find out that "Underquilt, yes/no" had devolved into a name calling match between the resident conspiracy nut and the resident libertarian that was eventually joined in by the resident old guard republican, the hippy communist, the amused and antagonistic Canadian, and the baffled European that had no idea this went on here.

I eventually came to the conclusion that since backpacking advice really had very little to nothing to do with someone's politics, that the best thing for everyone is to remove politics from the equation. There are sites that are devoted to politics, ideologies, and whatever else you subscribe to that it would be best to point those members that thought they should discuss those things constantly to those forums, and impose a ban on all political discussion. Unfortunately that leads to the slippery slope that is lead by the Snivelers. They start pointing all sorts of other things that offend them. I'll go with religion as the #2 thing since that is going to be it. Some atheist hippy is going to start being offended by someone's signature line that says something innocuous like "God bless you all" and complain about it. Maybe to you, but certainly on the public forum because he is butt hurt. Then the ultra-religious Christian is going to go way beyond that to prove some point he has and next thing you know the same actors are involved in a religious war. When you finally put some sensible policy in place to deal with it some jerk will want to test the limits again, and again, and again until the point comes where you best just not eve allow that anymore because it has become such a distraction to the purpose of the forum.

After that you are becoming the thought police. You start doing stuff like banning talking about fund raisers because the purpose may offend some. You start banning talk about veteran causes because some pinko lib has said they are offended by the baby killers getting special treatment, After a while you quit in disgust. What is the $^^%&#%! point?

Enough of my pontificating. I sincerely hope I am wrong. But I truly believe if you want this experiment to win, the best thing you can do is squash a political tone from creeping in at the start. Otherwise you will end up with only a few members that think the same as you and a very narrow band of opinions and ideas about Hammocks, and that will not draw in the others from the sidelines that are starting to get into the pastime because they will not see a wide group of knowledge here that they see on the other site. They will go there because of that and only through time learn about the things that are senseless (IMO) over there. If you are OK with a small sample of people that think like you and running a server with very little going on, then drive on. Look at my personal site and you will see what I mean. I am happy with my site my way and my friends and people looking for me specifically going there. But even with my preference for things the way I like them, if I need other viewpoints you do see me on those other two sites because, in the end, that is where the people still go because they are the sites where the people go.
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#9

Post by rhjanes » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:07 pm

+++1 on Sgt Rock said. I've admined a Drum Builders forum in a past life. We had to move the "religion, politics" off to a hidden/opt in sub-forum also. It STILL will spill over and become ugly. To this day (10 years later) there are still the "usual suspects" on that board (I no longer do anything but an occasional post, no longer admin) who ruffle feathers with their taunts. The "owner" lets a few do it and others get shouted down, who drift off to other related forums.
I've joined Trail Cafe a while ago and find myself mostly on there to click "mark all read" as it seems half those topics are "politics".
Last edited by rhjanes on Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#10

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:14 pm

SGT Rock wrote:As I drink my morning coffee and read this I'll just pass on something I learned years ago running Whiteblaze, take it for what it is worth....

Politics will ruin a board. I say that with great sadness as I was the one that constantly tried to hold a free speech standard on WhiteBlaze as it was first opening up and growing. But after a couple of years it became painfully obvious that some people could not separate politics from their opinion about people and from that their attitude about people's every decision. I'd like to see this experiment work, however if it does start to get going what you will see is some people that gravitate only towards talking politics and eventually you will see threads that have nothing to do with politics start to have fights (and I do mean fights) spill over to the point where something as inane as a thread about "Do you have a frying pan lid on your cook pot?" start to get comments like "The only reason you carry a frying pan is because you think pots with lids are some sort of liberal conspiracy to keep everyone from enjoying meat." Believe me, I lived it. It will turn off people that want to talk about hammocks and camping and leave their politics at the door. You will get people eventually that no longer see the site as something about hammocks, but a place to push whatever their political agenda is and leave hammocking and backpacking at the door.

When it started getting this bad we ended up moving politics to a forum where you could only opt in, otherwise it was invisible to others. But even with that, we had these "flair ups" where if we were not monitoring the board, we would eventually get reported post(s) and find out that "Underquilt, yes/no" had devolved into a name calling match between the resident conspiracy nut and the resident libertarian that was eventually joined in by the resident old guard republican, the hippy communist, the amused and antagonistic Canadian, and the baffled European that had no idea this went on here.
Playing Devils Advocate, I'll say that was the case in the other place, even though Politics was supposedly verboten. There's simply no way you're going to keep one side from detecting the other. I suspect the problems you had with one of the denizens over there is because he saw you as a military man living in the South, made certain assumptions about your politics, and treated you the way he wants everybody to treat people with views he disagrees with. The other thing is that Politics does inevitably become part of the equation. A good part of the reason that this site was started is because the owner of another site couldn't keep his own politics out of the way he ran his site and, over a period of time, alienated several different groups of people. And then there are people who see everything as a place to push their political agenda. Prohibiting the discussion of politics only becomes a challenge for them.

I do like the opt in thing, but I'll leave the technical stuff to Scuba. The way the Bunker here is set up is to provide separate rooms for folks to be sent to if things get bad. There's already been one individual come here whom I know is in the habit of starting stuff and then sitting back to enjoy the show. Once he saw that there was a place where that kind of post was going to be put, he made a public statement abvout it elsewhere and we haven't seen anything of him since.

It also turns out that they guy who instigated this post is the owner of a Facebook Page for hangers in one of the Piedmont States and apparently looked over my FB page, didn't like the politics he saw there, and decided not only to not approve me, but send me the jerk PM as well. His is also one of those "We don't permit talking about politics here" pages---but as in the case above, what that really means is "If I approve of your politics you can be a member."

Sometimes, it seems, the rule is used to silence people with whom you disagree more than it is to keep the peace on the site. Going back to the experience on the other site, there once was an experiment to allow discussion of guns on the trail. Peaceful and respectful discussions were had, but those with a definete political agenda would come in and cause trouble. But rather than deal with obvious troublemakers obviously making trouble, the owner decided to use those disruptions as an excuse to shut down discussions he politically disagreed with himself.
I eventually came to the conclusion that since backpacking advice really had very little to nothing to do with someone's politics, that the best thing for everyone is to remove politics from the equation. There are sites that are devoted to politics, ideologies, and whatever else you subscribe to that it would be best to point those members that thought they should discuss those things constantly to those forums, and impose a ban on all political discussion. Unfortunately that leads to the slippery slope that is lead by the Snivelers. They start pointing all sorts of other things that offend them. I'll go with religion as the #2 thing since that is going to be it. Some atheist hippy is going to start being offended by someone's signature line that says something innocuous like "God bless you all" and complain about it. Maybe to you, but certainly on the public forum because he is butt hurt. Then the ultra-religious Christian is going to go way beyond that to prove some point he has and next thing you know the same actors are involved in a religious war. When you finally put some sensible policy in place to deal with it some jerk will want to test the limits again, and again, and again until the point comes where you best just not eve allow that anymore because it has become such a distraction to the purpose of the forum.

After that you are becoming the thought police. You start doing stuff like banning talking about fund raisers because the purpose may offend some. You start banning talk about veteran causes because some pinko lib has said they are offended by the baby killers getting special treatment, After a while you quit in disgust. What is the $^^%&#%! point?

Enough of my pontificating. I sincerely hope I am wrong. But I truly believe if you want this experiment to win, the best thing you can do is squash a political tone from creeping in at the start. Otherwise you will end up with only a few members that think the same as you and a very narrow band of opinions and ideas about Hammocks, and that will not draw in the others from the sidelines that are starting to get into the pastime because they will not see a wide group of knowledge here that they see on the other site. They will go there because of that and only through time learn about the things that are senseless (IMO) over there. If you are OK with a small sample of people that think like you and running a server with very little going on, then drive on. Look at my personal site and you will see what I mean. I am happy with my site my way and my friends and people looking for me specifically going there. But even with my preference for things the way I like them, if I need other viewpoints you do see me on those other two sites because, in the end, that is where the people still go because they are the sites where the people go.
Pontificate away, and please continue to pontificate. Input from those that have gone before is always appreciated. We're trying something here that might be a bit different way to allow these side discussions to see how it works. We hope that we've set it up so that folks who want to talk about one thing have a place to do it, and a place to talk about other things as well. I hope it works, but if it doesn't we'll roll with the punches.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#11

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:54 am

Dang, I just posted a lengthy rant, but I can't find it?
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#12

Post by sarge » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:01 am

BillyBob66 wrote:Dang, I just posted a lengthy rant, but I can't find it?
Conservative or Liberal?
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#13

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:39 am

sarge wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:Dang, I just posted a lengthy rant, but I can't find it?
Conservative or Liberal?
Very conservative no doubt, but mainly I was just saying that seemed to m like RHJ and Sarge both had excellent points based on their times as mods, however.............
Then I went into my take on the signature thing and about why can't people just leave each other alone and it always seems to go just one way, against the traditional or conservative view. etc etc Maybe some day I will learn my lesson and finally learn to always compose in a word processor and save as I go along. Or, I see that I can save a draft here? What could have possibly happened to that post? I am going to test save this post.
Bill

OK, that worked, I just clicked "load draft" and here it is.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#14

Post by SGT Rock » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:47 pm

Speaking of bible quotes in signature lines. I would love to point out that one of my favorite quotes was recently highlighted in a recent movie. In "Fury" when they are about to face the last stand scenario Shia LaBeouf's character brings it up:

And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me. (‭Isaiah‬ ‭6‬:‭8‬ ASV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwsOdsxDZh0

As an Armor guy for a 23 year career I was so moved by an accurate portrayal of what it is like to be on a crew and the realism of the combat scenes is right up there with only a few movies that have ever got it right. But then to see that quoted... I don't have words for it.
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Re: So I Get This PM on Facebook

#15

Post by rhjanes » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:36 pm

that was a scene. Sort of a strange movie I thought. the dialog, needed to be clearer. hard to understand some of it. maybe I'm old.
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