Sigh

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Thought I'd do something constructive while drinking my morning coffee, so I decided to write a little something every day I'm not out in the woods. Just keep in mind, this is stuff I'm writing before I've finished my morning coffee
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BillyBob66
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Re: Sigh

#16

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:17 pm

GregD wrote:
kev137 wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:There is probably no way to find out, but I bet anything this guy (?) thinks of himself as tolerant. I bet he is all about tolerance and inclusion. At least for the correct side, determined by people like him. While at the same time probably curses Christians as being intolerant.
Without a doubt. He probably pats himself on the back about how enlightened he is.
You are now doing to him what he did to Sarge - you are taking a teeny-tiny bit of data and extrapolating to a conclusion that he is an undesirable person. And in this case your extrapolation isn't even from the data, but from your reaction to the data. The data indicates the person is an atheist with negative attitudes towards religion, in this case quick to punish with no attempt at reconciliation.
To borrow a phrase from the OP: SIGH! Good grief why are you defending this horse's ass? Plus, you are once again so danged wrong!

How am I doing to him what he did to sarge? He banned Sarge because of who he is, exhibiting a great deal of hate and intolerance as he did so.

How is that like what I did? Because he acted in a cruel and intolerant manner, blatantly stating his hatred for Christians and actually banning Sarge, I pointed out that in my experience many people I have encountered like him- who exhibit outright hatred for Christians, are also the very same hypocrites that think they are the enlightened, inclusive, tolerant bunch. I stated there is no way to find out for sure, but I would bet $ that is the case since I have observed it to be the case so many times in my life.

This guy said against Sarge words that would be considered hate speech by the thought police of the left if said against certain preferred groups. He or she said " Religion is disease and you are wrecking the world...you are not welcome in any of my groups (which include all the other GoPro groups pretty much). Byeeeeee" and then took action on his words, denying services to Sarge because of Sarges relifious beliefs, or at least Sarge's failure to cower and hide those beliefs. Me saying ( or Kev agreeing) that I bet he thinks he is a tolerant person is in no way in the same category as what he did.

Still, no matter what you think about me doing the same thing as him, I stick with what I said. I wish there was a way to find out, because I'd bet $100 that he thinks he is tolerance personified. Mr. inclusive.

And I forgot: you said we are "extrapolating to a conclusion that he is an undesirable person. And in this case your extrapolation isn't even from the data, but from your reaction to the data. The data indicates the person is an atheist with negative attitudes towards religion, in this case quick to punish with no attempt at reconciliation." I've got news for you, the data you ae pointing to there is indeed an undesirable person. No extrapolation is really required for me, if he is an atheist who is quick to punish people of faith, those are undesirable attributes. Are you saying you think they are desirable?


Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Sigh

#17

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:30 pm

One more thing: his "taking a teeny-tiny bit of data and extrapolating to a conclusion that he is an undesirable person" was based on Sarge being an unapologetic Christian. Base on who Sarge actually is.

The data we are basing our conclusions on is the fact that he makes it plain he hates Christians and, as you put it, is "quick to punish them" when he finds them, if he has the power. Quite a difference.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Sigh

#18

Post by sarge » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:58 am

Let me say this:

I think folks around here know that I have been a target for people who have power (limited as it might be) because I am not only an unashamed Christian, but because I am proudly unashamed (proud in the non-Biblical sense). So, I do have a deeper data base on the subject of people who engage in using that power and how they carry themselves in the world. My experience there confirms in my mind that the gentleman does indeed consider himself tolerant of others, and he confirms that tolerance by being intolerant of Christains who he views as the source of intolerance in the world.

The gentleman's tone was as evangelical in its expression as any street corner preacher's. His stated purpose is to make better world a world destroyed by Chrisitans, and he uses the power he has (which he obviously thinks is greater than it actually is) to silence Christians who express thier Faith. Its not the first time some of here have seen this, and many of us are personally aquainted with individuals who have used their power to do the same thing, so we at least have that data to draw on as well.

BUT

The Bible teaches us that we are broken creatures prone to hurting others. We know the Bible is right on that because when we're honest with ourselves we acknowledge those times that we have hurt others or, perhaps, used a power we had to hurt or disadvantage someone with whom we disagree. For my part, in the context of this event, as an admin, owner, or moderator of more than a few Facebook groups have acknowledged that propensity within myself, consciously endeavor to suppress it, and have many times in the past been successful in that endeavor and not used that power.

The ironic thing here is that the gentleman not only fulfilled the prophesy that we will be punished by men for our Faith in a God sent Savior, but has confirmed one of the over arching principles of Christianity that man is inherently mean and in need of that Savior.

The task here for the Christians here is to be forgiving in those times when such things happen to us, be vigilant in policing our own behavior, be repentant when we do see it in ourselves, and rebuke (in the Biblical sense) our brothers and sisters when we see it in them. The task for the non beleivers here is the same. Theirs may be more difficult as it applies to rebuking those they see among themselves who use their power to hurt Christians.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Sigh

#19

Post by GregD » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:28 am

BillyBob66 wrote:
GregD wrote:
kev137 wrote:
Without a doubt. He probably pats himself on the back about how enlightened he is.
You are now doing to him what he did to Sarge - you are taking a teeny-tiny bit of data and extrapolating to a conclusion that he is an undesirable person. And in this case your extrapolation isn't even from the data, but from your reaction to the data. The data indicates the person is an atheist with negative attitudes towards religion, in this case quick to punish with no attempt at reconciliation.
To borrow a phrase from the OP: SIGH! Good grief why are you defending this horse's ass? Plus, you are once again so danged wrong!

How am I doing to him what he did to sarge? He banned Sarge because of who he is, exhibiting a great deal of hate and intolerance as he did so.

How is that like what I did? Because he acted in a cruel and intolerant manner, blatantly stating his hatred for Christians and actually banning Sarge, I pointed out that in my experience many people I have encountered like him- who exhibit outright hatred for Christians, are also the very same hypocrites that think they are the enlightened, inclusive, tolerant bunch. I stated there is no way to find out for sure, but I would bet $ that is the case since I have observed it to be the case so many times in my life.

This guy said against Sarge words that would be considered hate speech by the thought police of the left if said against certain preferred groups. He or she said " Religion is disease and you are wrecking the world...you are not welcome in any of my groups (which include all the other GoPro groups pretty much). Byeeeeee" and then took action on his words, denying services to Sarge because of Sarges relifious beliefs, or at least Sarge's failure to cower and hide those beliefs. Me saying ( or Kev agreeing) that I bet he thinks he is a tolerant person is in no way in the same category as what he did.

Still, no matter what you think about me doing the same thing as him, I stick with what I said. I wish there was a way to find out, because I'd bet $100 that he thinks he is tolerance personified. Mr. inclusive.

And I forgot: you said we are "extrapolating to a conclusion that he is an undesirable person. And in this case your extrapolation isn't even from the data, but from your reaction to the data. The data indicates the person is an atheist with negative attitudes towards religion, in this case quick to punish with no attempt at reconciliation." I've got news for you, the data you ae pointing to there is indeed an undesirable person. No extrapolation is really required for me, if he is an atheist who is quick to punish people of faith, those are undesirable attributes. Are you saying you think they are desirable?
Arguably that data supports intolerance and a negative attitude toward religion. However it provides no indication whatsoever that the person considers himself a tolerant person. Calling religion a disease is not even close to the same thing as hating Christians. I'm not defending the guy, just pointing out that you are ascribing to him characteristics that are not in evidence (unless you have other evidence). Such speculation isn't a bad thing. However, taking as fact assertions unsupported by evidence is illogical.

Since I'm repeating myself, I'll just leave it at that. It is likely you still think I'm so danged wrong.

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Re: Sigh

#20

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:44 pm

GregD wrote:
Arguably that data supports intolerance and a negative attitude toward religion. However it provides no indication whatsoever that the person considers himself a tolerant person. Calling religion a disease is not even close to the same thing as hating Christians. I'm not defending the guy, just pointing out that you are ascribing to him characteristics that are not in evidence (unless you have other evidence). Such speculation isn't a bad thing. However, taking as fact assertions unsupported by evidence is illogical.

Since I'm repeating myself, I'll just leave it at that. It is likely you still think I'm so danged wrong.
Well, Greg, yes, I do. But your entire claim ( about what I was doing and what Kev seemed to agree with me on ) is way off the tracks to start with. No one was claiming any kind of known fact about this guy's supposed view of himself as tolerant. Clearly, never having communicated with the fellow, I have no way of KNOWING anything about that. I just said that I was willing to bet money that he was indeed that type, based on my actual experiences with so many others of the so called tolerant persuasion. For all I actually know, he is just some lunatic who hates every body, and is into equal opportunity hatred and intolerance, and fully considers himself intolerant of all and proud of it. Anything is possible.

But- if we could only find out- I'm still willing to bet money that this guy is Mr. Tolerance in his mind, Mr. Inclusive. He probably views himself as having done a righteous act against Sarge, protecting his followers/readers from the intolerance of an evil Christian character. Sarge's follow up comments seem to indicate that is indeed the case, that he considers himself uber tolerant, I guess that is still not proof. But I'm still willing to place that bet, just as willing as I am to bet we will never see a dog far enough evolved to do algebra. I feel confident in both of these bets. And if we could only get him on here to communicate, then we could see if I am going to lose some money. But until that happens, I make no claims that I know for sure he thinks he is an enlightened, tolerant, inclusive person. ( even though I'm sure he does! ;) )

But as Sarge says, and just as in my case also, just another fallen, sinful person who needs the Lord. (IMHO) No more so than the next sinner, and I need to be merciful in my attitude towards him, and pray for him. He is indeed only fulfilling the prophecies.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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