White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#16

Post by dirtwheels » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:24 pm

Are you saying the LEO in the linked article is an unreliable source? What do you base that on? He stated it was routine to find voter ID cards in illegal alien invaders? I guess you have evidence that the illegal alien invaders are using voter ID cards for something other than voting? Why wouldn't they vote? Many are beneficiaries from big govco spending programs, surely you believe they are intelligent to act in their own self interest, don't you?

Since Trump was a Hillary supporter, do you think he was working with her after her team invented the birther movement?


GregD wrote:
dirtwheels wrote:Are you claiming that there are none of the illegal alien invaders voting? Why wouldn't they vote?
I am claiming that you and The Donald have no credible indication whatsoever of how many non-citizens voted. (BTW, there are quite a number of non-citizens in this country legally; why do you presume that those that voted illegally are also illegal immigrants?) Why would they vote? You are jumping to conclusions.
dirtwheels wrote: You seem really partisan. That's OK, it's really weird to hear that Trump worked with the Russian's who "hacked" the election, but suddenly when claims that arise that illegals are voting in numbers significant enough to impact elections suddenly there is no questioning the election results.
Indeed I do not like The Donald. My objection, however, is that he disparaged a key institution of our democracy with absolutely no credible supporting information. We shall see if this results in a good faith effort to improve the integrity of our voting process nationwide or results in a political witch hunt. Want to argue that we need tighter controls on voter registration? Fine, do that, and maybe start that by pointing out what controls are currently in place and then pointing out their weaknesses. But that isn't the point here, and that isn't what The Donald did. The point is that The Donald specifically claimed 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary. With no credible evidence. Again, same guy that perpetuated the Birther lie.

They are illegally here, they have invaded our land, and they are aliens to our soil, La Rasa and others promote invading and taking back "lost" mexican land. iai seems to be the most accurate term available. Where am I factually wrong? Footballers play football, hammockers, hammock and invaders invade, what's the difference? Are those all not all voluntary? Where is the insult?

Are you stating that confiscated voter ID cards are not evidence?

When I was a child I did not understand thrust and lift, yet I could observe aircraft in the air, I was totally ignorant of air traffic control, our network of airports yet I knew that those were not birds and that they did not live in the sky. I did not know about our space program, but I knew those astronauts were not bus drivers and had to have obtained training. I know that if there are dead people voting, surely those who invade our lands and take advantage of local, state and federal programs are resourceful and intelligent enough to vote themselves some of big govco's largess. De'Toqueville saw the logic of that at our founding.

It isn't really a leap to add up the facts that:
1) IAI's have DL's.
2) While getting those DL's they also register to vote.
3) IAI's have been identified as having voter ID cards.
4) What, you think they are all using those cards for ...... what? Joining a book club?
In just eight Virginia counties, 1,046 alien non-citizens successfully registered to vote. Mind you, these are just the aliens who were accidentally caught because when they renewed their driver’s license, they told the truth that they were a non-citizen.

That’s because of Motor Voter. Motor Voter, or the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, mandates that anyone who applies for a driver’s license must be offered voter registration. To register, they must merely mark a checkbox that they are a citizen and sign the form. It’s a yes-no question, and thousands are lying — just in Virginia.

Virginia has no citizenship verification requirements like other states do, so the vulnerabilities in Motor Voter are amplified. Voter ID is no solution either. These aliens are getting registered to vote when they are getting their photo ID cards! http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/virg ... ered-vote/
Fox 10 Phoenix reports that nine illegal immigrants complete with fake identification and voter registration cards, and stolen social security numbers, voted at around 9 am a Desert Wind Middle School in Pinal County. At 10:30, the very same white van carrying the very same illegals was spotted at Santa Rosa Elementary School and they voted there as well. Just two hours later, the same group showed up at the Global Water Center to cast their vote. http://thelastlineofdefense.org/van-ful ... is-a-myth/
http://www.fairus.org/issue/noncitizens ... -elections

To claim there are no IAI's voting is an exercise of willful ignorance.
dirtwheels wrote: As the linked story noted iai's ...

You can can let dislike for Trump drive you and your post, I'll choose logic and facts. And I will not abandon logic when I do not have facts.
You may in the end even be proven correct, but you are not being logical. First, you describe the situation in deliberately biased terms (illegal alien invaders; can't you think of an even more prejudicial term than that?), you cherry pick a particular item in favor of your views (no mention of the considerable number of arguments against the conclusions of that one paper), and then you jump to conclusions not supported (yet) by any evidence in hand.

"When I do not have facts", the logical position is, "I don't know".

I am being logical. I do not have the facts. I don't know. The Donald has no facts to back up his specific claim. He doesn't know either.



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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#17

Post by sarge » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:46 pm

Indeed I do not like The Donald. My objection, however, is that he disparaged a key institution of our democracy with absolutely no credible supporting information. We shall see if this results in a good faith effort to improve the integrity of our voting process nationwide or results in a political witch hunt. Want to argue that we need tighter controls on voter registration? Fine, do that, and maybe start that by pointing out what controls are currently in place and then pointing out their weaknesses. But that isn't the point here, and that isn't what The Donald did. The point is that The Donald specifically claimed 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary. With no credible evidence. Again, same guy that perpetuated the Birther lie.
Yah its almost as if he was claiming that some foreign government had hacked the election or something.

We know Democrats have signed on to the idea that votes can be made illegally, they just don't want to investigate the most plasuible ways it could be done.

I want to know, especially after all the shade the Democrats have thrown on the election since 9 Novemeber. An investigation is on going in the parts that the Democrats want investigated, we should also look in all of the corners and see what gets swept out.

He did not claim that 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants. He claimed that she recieved that many illegal votes---and there's an important difference there. Its actually kind of racist to think that he was only talking about illegal immigrants, especially when his call for an investigation included the entirely plausible actions of people registered to vote in at least two states, voting in person in one, and sending in absentee ballots in the other(s). In addition, he included people who were dead but still on the voter roles and someone voting in thier name either in person or by absentee ballot, something plausible enough that it regularly comes up as the punchline to jokes.
Image Its convenient for Democrats to leave out those two other scenarios.

If I had wanted to, I could have voted in 3 states in the 1976 election. I remained registered in my home state of NH, could have registered in Oklahoma while I was stationed at Fort Sill, and remain registered there and register in Texas when I moved there when I got out of the Army. Its not too hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of poltically motivate people doing such things. I mean, they spend all day long on the Internet and Facebook exercising their activist muscles, why not a little election fraud just fo icing on the cake?
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#18

Post by dirtwheels » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:13 am

Ain't it weird that democrats oppose voter id laws claiming that poor blacks would be discriminated against? The DNC In Charlotte, NC was ordered to fire everyone and restaff over voter fraud in '12 or '08. It's really not like voter fraud NEVER happens but is is exactly like there is ONE party that demands making it easier for voter fraud to occur.

I haven't had time to search for Trumps actual quotes on illegal votes. But I know I haven't heard Trump actually use the numbers 3 to 5 million in referring to illegal alien invaders voting. If anyone can source and provide the quotes of the President using those numbers I'd appreciate it!
sarge wrote:
He did not claim that 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants. He claimed that she recieved that many illegal votes---and there's an important difference there. Its actually kind of racist to think that he was only talking about illegal immigrants, especially when his call for an investigation included the entirely plausible actions of people registered to vote in at least two states, voting in person in one, and sending in absentee ballots in the other(s). In addition, he included people who were dead but still on the voter roles and someone voting in thier name either in person or by absentee ballot, something plausible enough that it regularly comes up as the punchline to jokes.
Image Its convenient for Democrats to leave out those two other scenarios.

If I had wanted to, I could have voted in 3 states in the 1976 election. I remained registered in my home state of NH, could have registered in Oklahoma while I was stationed at Fort Sill, and remain registered there and register in Texas when I moved there when I got out of the Army. Its not too hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of poltically motivate people doing such things. I mean, they spend all day long on the Internet and Facebook exercising their activist muscles, why not a little election fraud just fo icing on the cake?

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#19

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:28 am

dirtwheels wrote:Are you saying the LEO in the linked article is an unreliable source? What do you base that on? He stated it was routine to find voter ID cards in illegal alien invaders? I guess you have evidence that the illegal alien invaders are using voter ID cards for something other than voting? Why wouldn't they vote? Many are beneficiaries from big govco spending programs, surely you believe they are intelligent to act in their own self interest, don't you?
You still insist on dehumanizing groups of persons and simultaneously expressing your dedication to confirmation bias. It seems you are determined to discriminate against these people and also cling to your current position independent of any objective evidence presented to you. HYOH I guess.

I make no comment about the reliability of "the LEO". That observation is inconclusive and therefore irrelevant to whether the statement asserted as FACT has been determined to be FACT. In the case where the observation that many undocumented immigrants have voter ID cards is deemed reliable, that at most raises suspicion. It does not in any way conclusively determine what, if anything, those cards are used for.

The FACT is that the name of everyone registered to vote is on a list. The FACT is that every ballot cast was associated with a name that is registered to vote. Conclusive evidence is some credible demonstration that 3 to 5 million names associated with a ballot cast in the November 2016 election have been determined to be ineligible to vote. That is a practical thing to do. Anyone claiming to KNOW that 3 to 5 million votes were cast illegally without evidence of comparable reliability is LYING.

Finish that little task (either you or The Donald) and then we can discuss the much harder problem of determining who received the votes of those illegally cast ballots. The simplistic reasoning you offer has been discredited and far more reliable statistics are available. Apparently you don't know that. Probably also you don't know what work is done to remove ineligible voters from the voter registration lists.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#20

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:39 am

dirtwheels wrote:I haven't had time to search for Trumps actual quotes on illegal votes. But I know I haven't heard Trump actually use the numbers 3 to 5 million in referring to illegal alien invaders voting. If anyone can source and provide the quotes of the President using those numbers I'd appreciate it!
The link in the OP has video of the press conference where Trump's press secretary confirmed that is Trump's position:
GregD wrote:Another fact-free conspiracy theory:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/don ... mg00000009

Did I miss something? WTF is going on at the White House?
Spend 10 minutes with google. If you make an honest effort I can't imagine you can miss it.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/ ... illegally/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 8769f954f4

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#21

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:14 am

sarge wrote:....................................................

If I had wanted to, I could have voted in 3 states in the 1976 election. I remained registered in my home state of NH, could have registered in Oklahoma while I was stationed at Fort Sill, and remain registered there and register in Texas when I moved there when I got out of the Army. Its not too hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of poltically motivate people doing such things. I mean, they spend all day long on the Internet and Facebook exercising their activist muscles, why not a little election fraud just fo icing on the cake?
OK, I have a question I was asking my wife yesterday, and she had no clue either. The news yesterday was about how one of the Trump children had been "caught"-gotcha-being registered to vote in more than one state. That got me to thinking about something I've never even considered before. I have lived all over this country in multiple states and have probably been registered to vote in the majority of them. Now I live in Mississippi and have been registered to vote here for the last 25 years. But unless things just expired because of some time limit, That means I am still registered to vote in multiple states. If you move to a new state and registered to vote there, are you supposed to go and unregister in the other states she lived in? Because I have never done it, nor have I have never heard of any such thing, and my guess is there are multiple millions of people in this country in the exact same position. In which case that is not much of a"gotcha" for the Trump child(was it Ivanka?).
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#22

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:17 am

GregD wrote:
You still insist on dehumanizing groups of persons and simultaneously expressing your dedication to confirmation bias. ...
Do you have some examples in this thread ( or elsewhere ) of Dirtwheels, or others, dehumanizing people? Or is this another example of a form of willful ignorance?
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#23

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:26 am

BillyBob66 wrote:
sarge wrote:....................................................

If I had wanted to, I could have voted in 3 states in the 1976 election. I remained registered in my home state of NH, could have registered in Oklahoma while I was stationed at Fort Sill, and remain registered there and register in Texas when I moved there when I got out of the Army. Its not too hard to imagine hundreds of thousands of poltically motivate people doing such things. I mean, they spend all day long on the Internet and Facebook exercising their activist muscles, why not a little election fraud just fo icing on the cake?
OK, I have a question I was asking my wife yesterday, and she had no clue either. The news yesterday was about how one of the Trump children had been "caught"-gotcha-being registered to vote in more than one state. That got me to thinking about something I've never even considered before. I have lived all over this country in multiple states and have probably been registered to vote in the majority of them. Now I live in Mississippi and have been registered to vote here for the last 25 years. But unless things just expired because of some time limit, That means I am still registered to vote in multiple states. If you move to a new state and registered to vote there, are you supposed to go and unregister in the other states she lived in? Because I have never done it, nor have I have never heard of any such thing, and my guess is there are multiple millions of people in this country in the exact same position. In which case that is not much of a"gotcha" for the Trump child(was it Ivanka?).
I expect it is very common for people to move without "unregistering" and end up being registered in two places. Not much of a "gotcha" at all. More of an issue if someone actually voted in multiple places; that would be a pretty deliberate and illegal act.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#24

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:49 am

BillyBob66 wrote:
GregD wrote:
You still insist on dehumanizing groups of persons and simultaneously expressing your dedication to confirmation bias. ...
Do you have some examples in this thread ( or elsewhere ) of Dirtwheels, or others, dehumanizing people? Or is this another example of a form of willful ignorance?
Just this:
dirtwheels wrote:illegal alien invaders
I assert that this choice of words is dehumanizing and discriminatory. And also exacerbates confirmation bias. I also assert that he is free to speak this way.

EDIT:

Lets consider some alternative wordings:

undocumented immigrant - understates the fact that laws require having appropriate documents.
immigrant lacking legally required documentation - awkward, but very accurate and minimizes any prejudicial effects either way.
illegal immigrant - suggests that the illegality might be more than the legally required documentation.

The "invaders" bit is clearly discriminatory and asserts facts not in evidence. In fact casual observation refutes the implied "facts".

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#25

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:00 pm

GregD wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:
GregD wrote:
You still insist on dehumanizing groups of persons and simultaneously expressing your dedication to confirmation bias. ...
Do you have some examples in this thread ( or elsewhere ) of Dirtwheels, or others, dehumanizing people? Or is this another example of a form of willful ignorance?
Just this:
dirtwheels wrote:illegal alien invaders
I assert that this choice of words is dehumanizing and discriminatory. And also exacerbates confirmation bias. I also assert that he is free to speak this way.

EDIT:

Lets consider some alternative wordings:

undocumented immigrant - understates the fact that laws require having appropriate documents.
immigrant lacking legally required documentation - awkward, but very accurate and minimizes any prejudicial effects either way.
illegal immigrant - suggests that the illegality might be more than the legally required documentation.

The "invaders" bit is clearly discriminatory and asserts facts not in evidence. In fact casual observation refutes the implied "facts".
Is that it? I can see how some people on the other side of the fence might find adding the word "invader" to "illegal alien" a step too far. But it is certainly not dehumanizing. Even the Nazis who invaded Poland via military force in Sept. 1939, though obviously invaders, were still humans and using the term "invader" to apply to them was not the least bit dehumanizing.

The best thing you have here is that the term might not be accurate, but even that is certainly debatable.

I just saw the following. I can not vouch for how valid their study is or is not. But I will add that the study seems to be dependent on who will anonymously- and maybe accidentally, admit they were non-citizen voters. I think it can be reasonably assumed that not all folks who did that would admit to it, even anonymously.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... m-nonciti/
Off Topic
.................................Esquire.com said, “The most bizarre lie of Donald Trump’s presidency so far is his claim of widespread voter fraud in an election he won.”

But conservative activists say the liberal media are ignoring evidence — that noncitizen voting is illegal and, thus, fraud. They say the Justice Department in the Obama administration was more concerned with preventing states from cleansing rosters of dead and inactive voters than in mounting any investigation into fraud.

“Most voters are never asked for voter ID, so it is dishonest to suggest that with the tens of millions of illegal and legal aliens here, there is no voter fraud,” said Tom Fitton, who heads the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch. “If the key Old Dominion study results on the 2008 election are applied to 2016 — 1.41 million aliens may have voted illegally, with 1.13 million voting for Democrats.”

“A federal voter fraud investigation is long overdue,” Mr. Fitton said. “It would be a simple matter of analyzing voter registration databases against federal databases of aliens and deceased individuals. Why is the left afraid to even ask the questions? The jig is up.”

There does not appear to be any concerted postelection effort by states to take on the daunting task of checking voter rolls and ballots to verify citizenship. In some states, no ID is required to register and vote.

In the absence of detailed accounting, the only scientific way to make an estimate is by post-vote polling.

Mr. Richman relies on a one-of-a-kind poll: the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey. Every two years, a consortium of 28 universities produces a detailed report on voters and their views based on polling by YouGov.

Tucked inside the lengthy questionnaire is a question on citizenship status: A significant number of respondents anonymously acknowledged they were not citizens when they voted.

Three professors at Old Dominion University — Mr. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha and David C. Earnest — took these answers, did further research and extrapolated that of a 19.4 million estimate of adult noncitizens, about 620,000 were illegally registered to vote in the 2008 presidential election. Using other measuring tools, they said, the actual number of noncitizen voters could be as low as 38,000 and as high as 2.8 million.

The U.S. Census Bureau reported in 2012 that there are 22 million noncitizens in the country. The group comprises illegal immigrants and people in the U.S. legally on a visa or permanent resident green card. Of this 22 million, 20 million were 18 or older, the U.S. voting age requirement.

Conservatives have long suspected that Democrats are tacitly encouraging illegal immigrants to vote. Liberal leaders have created “sanctuary cities” across the nation that refuse to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities.

President Obama was asked during the campaign last year if illegal immigrants had anything to fear from federal authorities if they voted in the presidential race.

“Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens — and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country — are fearful of voting,” he was asked on a Latino YouTube channel. “‘So if I vote, will Immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?’”

“Not true, and the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself,” Mr. Obama said. “And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential.”

Some conservatives interpreted Mr. Obama’s answer as a go-ahead signal, with his questionable assertion that voter rolls are off limits to federal investigators.

The WikiLeaks dump of Clinton campaign manger John Podesta’s emails contained one message on directing immigrants to vote. He said immigrants should obtain driver’s licenses and then attest at a polling place that they are U.S. citizens...........
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#26

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:43 pm

BillyBob66 wrote:
GregD wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:
Do you have some examples in this thread ( or elsewhere ) of Dirtwheels, or others, dehumanizing people? Or is this another example of a form of willful ignorance?
Just this:
dirtwheels wrote:illegal alien invaders
I assert that this choice of words is dehumanizing and discriminatory. And also exacerbates confirmation bias. I also assert that he is free to speak this way.

EDIT:

Lets consider some alternative wordings:

undocumented immigrant - understates the fact that laws require having appropriate documents.
immigrant lacking legally required documentation - awkward, but very accurate and minimizes any prejudicial effects either way.
illegal immigrant - suggests that the illegality might be more than the legally required documentation.

The "invaders" bit is clearly discriminatory and asserts facts not in evidence. In fact casual observation refutes the implied "facts".
Is that it? I can see how some people on the other side of the fence might find adding the word "invader" to "illegal alien" a step too far. But it is certainly not dehumanizing. Even the Nazis who invaded Poland via military force in Sept. 1939, though obviously invaders, were still humans and using the term "invader" to apply to them was not the least bit dehumanizing.

The best thing you have here is that the term might not be accurate, but even that is certainly debatable.
Lets not be naive. Very often words are chosen specifically to evoke an emotional response that is significantly different from the logical response. In some contexts that is called marketing; even though it is very common it is also dishonest. But we live with it. In other contexts it provides emotional support for acts of slander, discrimination, slavery, and even genocide.

It is not dehumanizing, discriminatory or even the slightest bit dishonest or inaccurate in calling people invading invaders. There is a clear difference between immigration and invasion, however. No, it is NOT reasonably debatable that the situation is the least bit unclear. The vast majority of illegal immigrants today are indeed immigrants that are coming into the US to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Each human is a unique individual and any characterization that discards as unimportant those differences is dehumanizing. The statement, "all Christians believe Jesus is the son of God" is true and not dehumanizing. At least I think so; I think this is just a restatement of the definition of Christian. However, "all Christians believe homosexual acts are wrong" is dehumanizing because it discards as unimportant those Christians that believe homosexual acts are acceptable. In some cases the effect is rather benign and nit picking about it may be counter productive. In other cases it provides emotional support for acts of slander, discrimination, slavery, and even genocide.

Even statements that are completely accurate can be dehumanizing. Consider, "Greg is a godless heathen." Perfectly accurate. Use that fact as a reason to conclude that I am any less important than any other human is dehumanizing. My impression is that more than one preacher has used the phrase, "godless heathen" precisely to imply that certain people were in some way less than other people. That is dehumanizing.

There are far too many examples of dehumanizing statements that contain the phrases, "Tea Party Conservatives", "Christian Conservatives", and "Republicans". Hillary's use of "deplorables" during the campaign was dehumanizing. Any excuse we come up with that divides people into "us" and "them" with the result that "they" are somehow lesser than "us" is dehumanizing. There is only "us". Let's act accordingly.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#27

Post by GregD » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:03 pm

BillyBob66 wrote:I just saw the following. I can not vouch for how valid their study is or is not. But I will add that the study seems to be dependent on who will anonymously- and maybe accidentally, admit they were non-citizen voters. I think it can be reasonably assumed that not all folks who did that would admit to it, even anonymously.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... m-nonciti/
I think I covered that here:
GregD wrote:The FACT is that the name of everyone registered to vote is on a list. The FACT is that every ballot cast was associated with a name that is registered to vote. Conclusive evidence is some credible demonstration that 3 to 5 million names associated with a ballot cast in the November 2016 election have been determined to be ineligible to vote. That is a practical thing to do. Anyone claiming to KNOW that 3 to 5 million votes were cast illegally without evidence of comparable reliability is LYING.

Finish that little task (either you or The Donald) and then we can discuss the much harder problem of determining who received the votes of those illegally cast ballots. The simplistic reasoning you offer has been discredited and far more reliable statistics are available. Apparently you don't know that. Probably also you don't know what work is done to remove ineligible voters from the voter registration lists.
Advocate for a comprehensive nation-wide review if you think it is worth spending YOUR tax dollars on it. I'm in.

But that isn't what Trump did. He asserted without evidence that he knew the result. He lied. He doesn't know.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#28

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Off Topic
Hillary's use of "deplorables" during the campaign was dehumanizing.
No wonder you and I seem to have so much trouble communicating. And I think I could generalize that to me and liberals/Dems in general. I appreciate that you gave several examples of what you call dehumanizing statements by Dems towards Repubs. And I can agree with you that what she said was an incorrect and insulting statement by calling 45+ million people deplorable, if you also actually agree with that. I can not agree with you that this was dehumanizing.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dehumanize
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Definition of dehumanize

transitive verb

: to deprive of human qualities, personality, or spirit

dehumanizationplay \(ˌ)dē-ˌhyü-mə-nə-ˈzā-shən, (ˌ)dē-ˌyü-\ noun

See dehumanize defined for English-language learners
Examples of dehumanize in a sentence

Inspectors have observed terrible factory conditions that dehumanize workers.

the dehumanizing nature of torture................................................................................

Definition of deplorable

1
: lamentable <a deplorable death>

2
: deserving censure or contempt : wretched <deplorable living conditions>

deplorableness noun
deplorablyplay \-blē\ adverb

See deplorable defined for English-language learners

See deplorable defined for kids
Related to deplorable
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Gallery: Word of the Year 2016
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Clinton Says Half of Trump Supporters Are in a 'Basket of Deplorables'
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Trending Words from Election 2016
Examples of deplorable in a sentence

<we will not tolerate such deplorable behavior in a house of worship>

<condemned the deplorable conditions in which the family was living>
I can, and do, say that certain human beings or even groups are "deserving censure or contempt" without at the same time depriving them " of human qualities, personality, or spirit". Since I don't want to spend hours arguing about the meaning of words, I will try and let you have the last word on this.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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BillyBob66
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#29

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:55 pm

GregD wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:I just saw the following. I can not vouch for how valid their study is or is not. But I will add that the study seems to be dependent on who will anonymously- and maybe accidentally, admit they were non-citizen voters. I think it can be reasonably assumed that not all folks who did that would admit to it, even anonymously.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... m-nonciti/
I think I covered that here:
GregD wrote:The FACT is that the name of everyone registered to vote is on a list. The FACT is that every ballot cast was associated with a name that is registered to vote. Conclusive evidence is some credible demonstration that 3 to 5 million names associated with a ballot cast in the November 2016 election have been determined to be ineligible to vote. That is a practical thing to do. Anyone claiming to KNOW that 3 to 5 million votes were cast illegally without evidence of comparable reliability is LYING.

Finish that little task (either you or The Donald) and then we can discuss the much harder problem of determining who received the votes of those illegally cast ballots. The simplistic reasoning you offer has been discredited and far more reliable statistics are available. Apparently you don't know that. Probably also you don't know what work is done to remove ineligible voters from the voter registration lists.
Advocate for a comprehensive nation-wide review if you think it is worth spending YOUR tax dollars on it. I'm in.

But that isn't what Trump did. He asserted without evidence that he knew the result. He lied. He doesn't know.
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Mr. Richman calculated that Mrs. Clinton would have collected 81 percent of noncitizen votes. “Is it plausible that non-citizen votes added to Clinton’s margin? Yes,” Mr. Richman wrote. “Is it plausible that non-citizen votes account for the entire nation-wide popular vote margin held by Clinton? Not at all.”

Still, the finding is significant because it means noncitizens may have helped Mrs. Clinton carry a state or finish better than she otherwise would have.
And I add again that it only includes those who would admit to being non-citizen. I would say that probably at least one person would not admit it to being non-citizen, but then I can't know that, can I?

Again, re: Trump's lies, I don't care. Why don't I care? Because we knew going in that he was running against one of the worlds great liars, who also always supported another great liar in his battles against women who accused him of sexual harassment or assault. Some of which he finally ended up admitting to as well as being convicted of perjury(aka lying). And she always called his victims liars or crazy or both. So, you say Trump is a liar because he can not know that there were some illegal votes for Hillary? Who gives a flying ****? When considering the alternative, who could possibly care? Big deal!
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#30

Post by dirtwheels » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:01 pm

IF I observed a guy jaywalking would it be dehumanizing to tell the guy with me "look at that jaywalker'? I think not, the term describes the guys actions accurately. THE guy chose to embrace jaywalking when he jaywalked, thus no dehumanizing. Those who choose to cross our borders illegally are here illegally, thus they are illegal/s. Those that are foreign to our land are alien to it, thus alien. Invaders are what La Rasa are calling for and what the illegals are doing. No body forced them to do that, where is the dehumanization? You do realize I am not talking space aliens, don't you?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... m-nonciti/

So it's not like there are an insignificant number of illegal votes being cast.
GregD wrote:
dirtwheels wrote:Are you saying the LEO in the linked article is an unreliable source? What do you base that on? He stated it was routine to find voter ID cards in illegal alien invaders? I guess you have evidence that the illegal alien invaders are using voter ID cards for something other than voting? Why wouldn't they vote? Many are beneficiaries from big govco spending programs, surely you believe they are intelligent to act in their own self interest, don't you?
You still insist on dehumanizing groups of persons and simultaneously expressing your dedication to confirmation bias. It seems you are determined to discriminate against these people and also cling to your current position independent of any objective evidence presented to you. HYOH I guess.

I make no comment about the reliability of "the LEO". That observation is inconclusive and therefore irrelevant to whether the statement asserted as FACT has been determined to be FACT. In the case where the observation that many undocumented immigrants have voter ID cards is deemed reliable, that at most raises suspicion. It does not in any way conclusively determine what, if anything, those cards are used for.

The FACT is that the name of everyone registered to vote is on a list. The FACT is that every ballot cast was associated with a name that is registered to vote. Conclusive evidence is some credible demonstration that 3 to 5 million names associated with a ballot cast in the November 2016 election have been determined to be ineligible to vote. That is a practical thing to do. Anyone claiming to KNOW that 3 to 5 million votes were cast illegally without evidence of comparable reliability is LYING.

Finish that little task (either you or The Donald) and then we can discuss the much harder problem of determining who received the votes of those illegally cast ballots. The simplistic reasoning you offer has been discredited and far more reliable statistics are available. Apparently you don't know that. Probably also you don't know what work is done to remove ineligible voters from the voter registration lists.

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