White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

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White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#1

Post by GregD » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:11 pm

Another fact-free conspiracy theory:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/don ... mg00000009

Did I miss something? WTF is going on at the White House?



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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#2

Post by dirtwheels » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:41 pm

How many illegal alien invaders (iai) live in the US? 11+ million. Is it really that difficult to conclude that those iai's who now have US drivers licenses, children in schools, and a vested interest in US policy would actually violate yet another law to vote to make their scam easier? Seriously, there is no one able to use logic to conclude that there HAS to be a percentage of that 11" million criminals who are voting?

Why would democrats object to an investigation into voter fraud?

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/11/30/i ... -elections

http://www.investors.com/politics/edito ... e-in-2016/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 5a53910e97

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/study ... d-in-2008/

Once again the left hit's their uncle Saul's textbook and is trying to isolate and vilify someone they believe that could threaten their power structure. Don't fall for the bait, we are all smarter than that.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#3

Post by GregD » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:58 pm

dirtwheels wrote:Seriously, there is no one able to use logic to conclude that there HAS to be a percentage of that 11" million criminals who are voting?
3 to 5 million illegal votes in the presidential election? Based on what evidence?

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#4

Post by dirtwheels » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:11 pm

Side stepping? One of the links I provided estimated up to 2.8 iai's voted in 2008. I'd wager you can't tell me which one without opening them for the 1st time.
GregD wrote:
dirtwheels wrote:Seriously, there is no one able to use logic to conclude that there HAS to be a percentage of that 11" million criminals who are voting?
3 to 5 million illegal votes in the presidential election? Based on what evidence?

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#5

Post by GregD » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:34 pm

dirtwheels wrote:Side stepping? One of the links I provided estimated up to 2.8 iai's voted in 2008. I'd wager you can't tell me which one without opening them for the 1st time.
GregD wrote:
dirtwheels wrote:Seriously, there is no one able to use logic to conclude that there HAS to be a percentage of that 11" million criminals who are voting?
3 to 5 million illegal votes in the presidential election? Based on what evidence?
A 2014 paper that was rebutted by another paper. And then what? Crickets. How about some evidence that stands up to a bit of scrutiny?

The White House is spewing BS simply because a certain childish egomaniac can't get over the fact that he lost the popular vote. When it was to his advantage just a few short weeks ago his lawyers claimed the election results in Michigan were untainted by any significant irregularities:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 20e92408b6

Claiming a result with no evidence whatsoever is just BS. Calling for an investigation to hold up the unsubstantiated claims is further BS. Whitewater! Whitewater! Whitewater! Bengazi! Bengazi! Bengazi! Email! Email! Email!

Were there significant voting irregularities? I don't know. But if one were actually concerned about the integrity of the election, there are sensible ways to investigate:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _idea.html

Remember the same childish egomaniac currently in charge of the White House also perpetuated the "Obama isn't a US citizen" lie for some time several years ago. He doesn't care at all about the truth.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#6

Post by dirtwheels » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:14 pm

I missed the part where I put on a Trump fanboy hat.

Are you claiming that there are none of the illegal alien invaders voting? Why wouldn't they vote?

You seem really partisan. That's OK, it's really weird to hear that Trump worked with the Russian's who "hacked" the election, but suddenly when claims that arise that illegals are voting in numbers significant enough to impact elections suddenly there is no questioning the election results.

As the linked story noted iai's are routinely discovered to have voter ID cards, D's champion motor voter registration and iai's are getting DL's. It doesn't take a village idiot to realize iai's are voting and people are voting multiple times and there are districts where more votes are cast than registered voters live. And there is only 1 party that opposes voter ID laws. Wonder why?

You can can let dislike for Trump drive you and your post, I'll choose logic and facts. And I will not abandon logic when I do not have facts.
GregD wrote:
A 2014 paper that was rebutted by another paper. And then what? Crickets. How about some evidence that stands up to a bit of scrutiny?

The White House is spewing BS simply because a certain childish egomaniac can't get over the fact that he lost the popular vote. When it was to his advantage just a few short weeks ago his lawyers claimed the election results in Michigan were untainted by any significant irregularities:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 20e92408b6

Claiming a result with no evidence whatsoever is just BS. Calling for an investigation to hold up the unsubstantiated claims is further BS. Whitewater! Whitewater! Whitewater! Bengazi! Bengazi! Bengazi! Email! Email! Email!

Were there significant voting irregularities? I don't know. But if one were actually concerned about the integrity of the election, there are sensible ways to investigate:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _idea.html

Remember the same childish egomaniac currently in charge of the White House also perpetuated the "Obama isn't a US citizen" lie for some time several years ago. He doesn't care at all about the truth.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#7

Post by sarge » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:12 pm

Yesterday, Trump made the claim that there was voter fraud in the election.

Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) said that if he thought so, he should call for an investigation.

Today, he called for an investigation.

Now Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself again) are saying he doesn't need to do the investigation they said he should call for.

Which means they still don't have a clue as to just how much they are being played.
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#8

Post by Idaho Hanger » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:13 pm

At this point I don't know what to think. We have the unprecedented event of foreign electronic interference in our election. We have a president that seems to be far more concerned with the size of his hands, his popular vote loss and his inauguration audience than being the president. Alternate facts, "we have a right to dispute the facts", a media blackout on the NPS Immediately following their tweet of inauguration crowd photos, refusal to remove himself from international businesses he owns, refusal to release tax records, corporate cronies filling the cabinet, an embarrassing nomination for the education department, a statement from his staff about "rethinking our association with the media" after being asked why Spicer lied about something so trivial as attendance in his first address to the American people, not to mention a blatantly unconstitutional plan specifically designed to discriminate against certain people based solely on their ethnicity and religion..... This isn't making America great again. This is a corporate takeover of all we hold dear. This is commerce before health and the environment. This isn't protecting our country. This is a blatant disregard for the first amendment and the words written in stone at Ellis Island. This isn't draining the swamp. His first wall is going around the swamp so no one can see all the crocs he's adding. Hilary was a horrible choice for president, but I'm pretty sure trump will be far worse. I don't align with either party, but Trump's proposed plans and his narcissistic attitude terrify me.

And of course, this is my opinion. Thanks for giving me a place to post it.
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#9

Post by sarge » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:11 pm

Well;

When it was all "The Russians did it!" the Democrats were all over having an investigation (which is ongoing) even though nobody has claimed that any vote totals were altered nor has anyone said that the emails they released were forgeries or untrue at all. Basically they're complaining that the Russians released emails that exposed thier corruption and blame losing the election results on the Russians and not the corruption.

Now, when Trump calls for an investgation that includes looking at how many dead people voted and how many people registered in two states and voted in both of them they're all "That stuff about illegal immigrants voting can't be true."

The fact of the matter is that massive voter registration fraud was exposed 8 years ago, and that's the most likely source of illegal voting. The two demographics that would be registering and voting in two states are college students and affluent white baby boomers with beach houses, vacation homes, and retirement homes in southern states and original domiciles in northern states. Those are also demographics that vote heavily Democratic.

But Democrats don't want to talk about that stuff, and don't want any kind of investigation that includes looking under THAT rug.

So they're going to focus on illegal immigrants and give you all sorts of info amd numbers on that and pretend that's all the proposed investigation is about.

As far as the supposed "gag orders" its not unusual for Presidents to do that as they are assuming office or introducing new programs.

OBAMA GAG ORDER ON FEDERAL WORKERS LIKE THOSE UNDER BUSH

Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility

Forest Service Staff Forbidden from Talking to National Media or on National Issues
Posted on Jan 28, 2010 | Tags: FS, Scientific Integrity, West Virginia

Washington, DC — U.S. Forest Service staff are under new orders not to speak to news reporters about politically sensitive issues, according to a directive released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). This gag order resembles those issued by the Bush administration, belying vows by the Obama administration of government transparency.

In a January 26, 2010 e-mail to employees, Kate Goodrich-Arling, the Public and Legislative Affairs Officer for the Monongahela National Forest, states:

“Partly due to the increased scrutiny surrounding ARRA [the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act] work and partly due to a relatively new administration, we remain under strict instructions for talking with the media. So, a reminder: If you receive media calls that fall under the following categories you cannot talk to the reporter, but should instead get their contact info and get in touch with me: 1. contacts by a member of the national media on ANY subject 2. contacts by a local or regional reporter seeking information about a national issue including policy and budget issues.”

The e-mail indicates that national media “include the Washington Post, NY Times, US Today, most TV stations, The Weather Channel, etc.” National issues are defined as “any topic related to accountability (like how we're implementing ARRA); or a resource topic that has been in the national media lately, like gas or wind development on public lands….” Located in the Allegheny Mountains of West Virginia, the Monongahela National Forest, like many public lands, is the site for controversial natural gas drilling.
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#10

Post by sarge » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:51 pm

Idaho Hanger wrote:At this point I don't know what to think. We have the unprecedented event of foreign electronic interference in our election. We have a president that seems to be far more concerned with the size of his hands, his popular vote loss and his inauguration audience than being the president. Alternate facts, "we have a right to dispute the facts", a media blackout on the NPS Immediately following their tweet of inauguration crowd photos, refusal to remove himself from international businesses he owns, refusal to release tax records, corporate cronies filling the cabinet, an embarrassing nomination for the education department, a statement from his staff about "rethinking our association with the media" after being asked why Spicer lied about something so trivial as attendance in his first address to the American people, not to mention a blatantly unconstitutional plan specifically designed to discriminate against certain people based solely on their ethnicity and religion..... This isn't making America great again. This is a corporate takeover of all we hold dear. This is commerce before health and the environment. This isn't protecting our country. This is a blatant disregard for the first amendment and the words written in stone at Ellis Island. This isn't draining the swamp. His first wall is going around the swamp so no one can see all the crocs he's adding. Hilary was a horrible choice for president, but I'm pretty sure trump will be far worse. I don't align with either party, but Trump's proposed plans and his narcissistic attitude terrify me.

And of course, this is my opinion. Thanks for giving me a place to post it.

Well;

It pretty obvious that whats been done for the past 8 years (and the 8 years before that, and the 8 years before that) hasn't worked.

Right now we've got an economy that has college educated adult children sleeping in thier parent's basements in between shifts at their minimum wage jobs and all the Democrats could do is say they're going to raise the minimum wage on their crappy jobs, let their parents carry them on the health insurance they're forced to buy, and tell them they should eat better.

Time for something else.

I think the Democrat's biggest fear is that folks will go back to work at better paying jobs and everybody starts making money again. So they're going to poison the well now so that if that does happen folks might not notice.

I think if anybody says we're going to see doooooooom they should take that ability to see into the future and buy a Lottery Ticket. Otherwise, I'm going to regard all the dire predictions and accusations with the same grain of salt I'ber been taking them from both sides since I cast my first ballot in 1972.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#11

Post by BillyBob66 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:47 pm

So, he has made claims that there might have been a lot of illegal voting accounting for the fact that the popular vote seemed to favor Hillary while the electoral vote- the one that counts until the powers change that- heavily favored him? And at the moment he has no evidence to prove such an allegation, though he is calling for an investigation to see if any facts can be found? Well, maybe that is an outrageous claim, maybe not. For the life of me, I can not possibly give a damn. If there truly is no evidence whatsoever, and even though I probably can(and will) make some arguments in favor of his claim, still, I simply do not care.

This is because I am so deliriously happy that the racist president, his racist DOJ and his clone of a replacement is gone, that I just can not be bothered with minor things like that. Will he be no better, and possibly even worse, than HRC? I pray he will not, but anything is possible. But I knew what HRC would be like, based on what she and her husband have always been like. And it made me ill to think of that, of 4-8 more years of what we had under Obama. So since I refused to choose her, I must now pray that he will be no worse overall or even actually be better, all things considered.

Can he do a better job of controlling debt and boosting the economy? I hope so, but he has tremendous burdens to overcome. We are starting with a debt increase the likes of which only a WW2 matched or exceeded based on % of GDP. Neither the Civil War, WW1 or the great depression winessed these kinds of debt increases. Nothing was even close other than WW2. Or, simply looked at in trillions of $, an increase in 8 years equal or greater than the total amount accumulated from the founding, up from the already staggering roughly 9 Trillion for the 1st 240 years to about 19 trillion after another 8 years.

That debt is going to be an anchor around our necks for a long time, to say the least. I don't know if anyone can do anything about it. Savers like me- in retirement or not- have earned about zero interest on their life savings for 8 years now. So that is a real blow to a significant part of the population, sort of screwing a lifetime of planning. But if inflation or anything else forces the interest rates back up even a few miserable % so savers can earn some income on their savings as all previous US generations have been able to do, it will probably crash the stock and housing markets just like that last small increase did in 07-08. On top of that, ever increasing use of robots and automation seem to be putting a lid on demand for labor, and might do so no matter how many companies he is able to convince to reestablish manufacturing in this country. Also, I have seen indications that the government may have gone back to their disastrous ways of helping people get into houses they can not afford. Which, again, if interest rates go up look out. So I'm not sure what he or anyone else can do about all of that. But I hope he can help things, help to get the kids(as sarge mentioned) out of their parents basements and to become self sufficient.

So I don't know if he can tame this beast's trajectory, much less get us back into a boom like we saw under Regan that kept on rolling through Clinton with the republican congress. Until the 1st crash at the very end of Clinton's 2nd term.Then that 2nd one at the end of Bush's 2nd term. I don't know if he can, but I hope he can at least help a bit. Maybe some of those millions who have left the labor force, who have given up looking for jobs, can be brought back in. But I don't know, time will tell.

But while we wait to find out if he can do the seemingly impossible, I just could care less if he has no evidence that there was major voter fraud. HRC only carried a few states, and the big kahuna of those states was CA. And which state has vast #s of illegals? Yep. IMO the main reason Dems fight tooth and nail against voter ID is because they are the pro-voter fraud party, as they are the main ones to benefit from voter fraud. So it seems quite reasonable to think they may well have benefited from illegal votes.

As for "not to mention a blatantly unconstitutional plan specifically designed to discriminate against certain people based solely on their ethnicity and religion.", what is this referring to? Is it to limiting people from certain countries or with certain religions from immigrating to this country? If so, where does the constitution say that the USA can not limit immigrants for any reason it chooses? The first amendment has nothing to say about limiting what the government can say about the religions of non-citizens wishing to come here from other countries, does it? It only speaks to the feds not having anything to say about prayer in school in MS, or about an individuals religious practices. Even though they have plenty to say about such anyway. But non-citizens on foreign soil? They have no US Constitutional protections, and the US citizens owe them nothing, and certainly not entry into this country, nor must we pay for it or put them on our welfare systems. Trump seems to be aware of this. And of a duty to protect the American citizen from those who hate them. And to protect America from going further into the mess that liberal Europe now finds itself.He seems to realize we have no need to import more death and destruction, a self inflicted wound. I agree.

I assume the below is true, but I have not researched it exhaustively.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/16/the-p ... mmigrants/
Off Topic
The authority of the president to bar certain classes of aliens was used six times by former President Bill Clinton. For example, in May of 1994 Clinton signed an order “barring entry for members of the Haitian military, their immediate families, any major participants in the coup d’état of 1991.”

Then in January of 1998, Clinton signed an order “barring entry for members of the military junta in Sierra Leone, and their families.”...........Former President Jimmy Carter used this executive order only once and in a way quite similar to what Trump has proposed. In April 1980, as the U.S embassy in Tehran was under terrorist control, Carter signed an order invalidating “all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States.” The order said that the U.S “will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires.”

Law Professor Jan Ting of Temple University told The Daily Caller that “absolutely and without any doubt” does existing law allow Trump to restrict immigration of certain nationalities or religious groups.
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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#12

Post by GregD » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:45 am

dirtwheels wrote:Are you claiming that there are none of the illegal alien invaders voting? Why wouldn't they vote?
I am claiming that you and The Donald have no credible indication whatsoever of how many non-citizens voted. (BTW, there are quite a number of non-citizens in this country legally; why do you presume that those that voted illegally are also illegal immigrants?) Why would they vote? You are jumping to conclusions.
dirtwheels wrote: You seem really partisan. That's OK, it's really weird to hear that Trump worked with the Russian's who "hacked" the election, but suddenly when claims that arise that illegals are voting in numbers significant enough to impact elections suddenly there is no questioning the election results.
Indeed I do not like The Donald. My objection, however, is that he disparaged a key institution of our democracy with absolutely no credible supporting information. We shall see if this results in a good faith effort to improve the integrity of our voting process nationwide or results in a political witch hunt. Want to argue that we need tighter controls on voter registration? Fine, do that, and maybe start that by pointing out what controls are currently in place and then pointing out their weaknesses. But that isn't the point here, and that isn't what The Donald did. The point is that The Donald specifically claimed 3 to 5 million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary. With no credible evidence. Again, same guy that perpetuated the Birther lie.
dirtwheels wrote: As the linked story noted iai's ...

You can can let dislike for Trump drive you and your post, I'll choose logic and facts. And I will not abandon logic when I do not have facts.
You may in the end even be proven correct, but you are not being logical. First, you describe the situation in deliberately biased terms (illegal alien invaders; can't you think of an even more prejudicial term than that?), you cherry pick a particular item in favor of your views (no mention of the considerable number of arguments against the conclusions of that one paper), and then you jump to conclusions not supported (yet) by any evidence in hand.

"When I do not have facts", the logical position is, "I don't know".

I am being logical. I do not have the facts. I don't know. The Donald has no facts to back up his specific claim. He doesn't know either.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#13

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:28 pm

I also do not have the facts. I also do not know. But simply because we do not have facts pointing either way, does that make me wrong to suspect that illegal voting took place, and that the vast majority of that would be for the party that hates voter ID? It certainly does not make me wrong, or President trump wrong, to suspect that very thing. Just as in science, theories begin with observations. There may not have been 1 single illegal vote cast for HRC, but that does not make it wrong for me to suspect there probably were some, possibly even a lot. And it does not make me either wrong, bad or crazy to say that I suspect there might have been.

Do you KNOW there is no God who created all of this apparent design we observe? Of course you don't KNOW. But you are pretty darn sure there is not a god anyway, and that all of this precision and apparent design just fell into place by accident, something that is never observed. Do you know that a one celled organism came to life from dead material and the evolved itself to become a mammal and then an Einstein? Of course you don't know that is how it happened, yet youstrongly believe it did happen more or less in that way. And you don't mind saying so, do you?

All the powers that be, including most Republican leaders, seem to have about the same opinion on these matters as you do. All of the powers that be, including all of the pollsters, observed that Trump was having these massively attended rallies, while HRC could hardly get any one to turn out in comparison. Despite this observation, all of these powers that be, including among most of the Republicans in power and most of the polls, kept on telling us "your observations are useless, trump can not possibly win.".

And despite all of that, look what happened. Did you watch the faces of all of the news media, even some on Fox, as the evening progressed? From smug assurance to despondency and shock? One of the best was to watch MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, who started the evening with a huge smile on her face as she showed us in great detail why Trump simply could not win. She went over numerous presumed blue states, told us why he could not win them, but even if he won most of them, he still could not win. I guess she was thinking because of the electoral votes, he just could not get enough to overcome NY and CA.

I guess one could say there was no credible evidence that Trump stood a chance. Most of the "smart"people in places of power and influence kept assuring us of that, didn't they? Even these massive rallies for Trump, compared to HRC's pitiful rallies, meant nothing. He had to be crazy to keep saying "I am going to win". Right?

Well, now all of the same powers that be seem to be united in the opinion that he is a crazy man to be saying that massive voter fraud explains a popular vote loss despite the fact that he had those massive rally turn outs and took all but 18 states, including several impossibly blue states like PA. Well, please excuse me if I don't just automatically accept it when these same folks tell me he must be crazy. Especially when I consider that the big Kahuna state(and one of the few states) he lost in, CA, is positively chocked full of potential illegal voters. I personally doubt that illegal votes account for several million votes, but I would not be surprised if illegal votes had a significant effect. And if Trump wants to state his opinion on that, it is fine with me. All I really care about is that our country did not elect Obama for a 3rd term by putting HRC in. And considering how both Dem and Rep politicians, since Ted Kennedy's voting act, have flooded the country with almost guaranteed lib Dem voters, I don't really care if she won by 20 million votes, as long as he won the electoral votes.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#14

Post by GregD » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:58 pm

BillyBob66 wrote:I also do not have the facts. I also do not know. But simply because we do not have facts pointing either way, does that make me wrong to suspect that illegal voting took place, and that the vast majority of that would be for the party that hates voter ID? It certainly does not make me wrong, or President trump wrong, to suspect that very thing.
Multiple times he asserted as fact a statement with no credible evidence. That is a lie; a deliberate misrepresentation of reality with the specific intent to deceive. You are describing a different action; something he could have done, but something he did not do.

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Re: White House Claims Massive Voter Fraud

#15

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:38 pm

GregD wrote:
BillyBob66 wrote:I also do not have the facts. I also do not know. But simply because we do not have facts pointing either way, does that make me wrong to suspect that illegal voting took place, and that the vast majority of that would be for the party that hates voter ID? It certainly does not make me wrong, or President trump wrong, to suspect that very thing.
Multiple times he asserted as fact a statement with no credible evidence. That is a lie; a deliberate misrepresentation of reality with the specific intent to deceive. You are describing a different action; something he could have done, but something he did not do.
Well if you are correct about all of that, then he is a liar. Which puts him in the category of Barack Obama, HRC and Bill "I did not have sex with...." Clinton, and most of the others, at least when it comes to lies.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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