I can not argue with your next to last paragraph. Republicans have also been the source of a lot of crap, although very often when they betray their conservative principles once in office. Last paragraph, I do not agree with that so much.GregD wrote:The fall of Detroit, Flint, Bay City, and other Michigan cities started before I left Michigan in 1984. The race riots were in the 60's and it is my understanding that the area self-segregated as whites moved out of Detroit to the surrounding municipalities. There are similar challenges in Grand Rapids and Muskegon, and probably other industrial Michigan cities as well. We do our segregation up north also. The unions were dysfunctional, and so too were the corporations. The product was crap. I was there. Friends and fathers of friends worked in the industry. MY father worked in the industry. Interesting anecdote: the businesses my father ran never unionized - because he treated workers well. Corporations get the unions they deserve. Government regulations? I'm sure many are stupid, but before them there were far more worker injuries and deaths, and environmental hell-holes scattered about.sarge wrote:The changes in the automotive industry were government regulations that increased the cost of manufacturing an automobile so, yah, the problems were caused by changes in the automotive industry. That and high property taxes, income taxes at the State level and high labor costs imposed by government sanctioned Unions.GregD wrote:
Cute, but bogus analysis. Detroit's fortunes have been driven to a large extent by changes in the automotive industry and by racism. It is also true that they elected at least a few poor performing mayors.................
Corporations, unions, and governments are run by people; people mess up and cause problems. Yes indeed, you get too many Democrat politicians together and you start hearing some really stupid ideas. I know; I was there. But you get too many Republicans together and you ALSO start hearing some really stupid ideas.
At this point you are just spewing anti-Democrat propaganda; accuracy doesn't matter as long as it sounds good to you. You don't care about trying to do better, you just want to throw rocks. Income taxes as the moral equivalent to slavery indeed; is that what you consider responsible discussion?
One problem I see with the question of "how much is enough" is that really the answer is "no amount", or maybe "all of it". At least that seems to be the way it works out in reality. You start out in the 30s with some programs to help some hard working people ravaged by the Great Depression, people who had a huge work ethic but there was no work to be had. Then you "progress", as in progressive, to the Great Society of LBJ, and the trillions spent since then. Then, almost inevitably, you end up with Obama phones and sex change operations for prisoners and all the rest of it.
And don't forget the schools(simply as another example of how government will never have enough, no matter how much we give them). In my small southern town, the school budget is ~ $14,000 per student( something like over 100 million for 7000 students), which does not include various building related expenses that are covered by separate bond issues. That is roughly equal to the full time minimum wage. So, for each classroom of twenty, $280,000 a year is available. Subtract $50,000 a year in salary and benefits for 9 months work, and you are left with $230,000 per year for each classroom to cover chalk expense. Even though today it is computers, but still, major $. It just seems to me that would be enough money to adequately educate a student.
But instead, we struggle with ever lower results from the students nation wide, and even here locally. I do not ever remember a time when the cry has not been: "We need more money, the children are suffering from lack of funds for adequate education". ( any one else here ever hear that much?) We are occasionally treated to the spectacle of students going door to door soliciting money for school supplies. And we occasionally hear of teachers spending their own money to come up with class room supplies or maybe to get supplies for individual students. Once we even heard that toilet paper was in short supply in the school bathrooms, could we please donate something. In the meantime, the local private schools are famous for their results and manage to stay open and apparently profitable charging a tuition of maybe $6K per year. WTH? Where in the hell is all of this money going year after year?
So how much is enough? Well looking at our national and local government debts, apparently no amount will ever be enough. They can always find something additional to spend the new money on, usually spending more than the new money brings in and just borrowing what is needed.
