HH Suspension Question

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HH Suspension Question

#1

Post by ADVStrom14 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:55 pm

I'm carrying this over from "the forum that shall not be named." I have my reasons.

I bought an HH Ultralight Backpacker a month or so ago - my first. I really like it and the concept of the all in one but I'm trying to figure it out. When I bought it I traded out the original asym tarp for the hex tarp thinking I might like the bigger tarp. I bought the asym the other day for good weather trips and waht not.

The issue is this - I hated the original HH suspension because it's lack of quick adjustability and it's overall just taking a lot of time and effort to get set up. I traded it out for 15' webbing straps with Dutch spiders and continuous loops on the hammock. My reasoning was that I would just attach the continuous loops to the spiders and only use the whoopies if I needed some extra length (this is what several people from the other forum said they were doing). I bought the 15" CL's that Dutchware recommended for the HH and they attached just fine. But I put the prussic knot back on with the clips that attach the tarp ridgeline to the hammock (hoping to make it the all in one that it is supposed to be) and now when I set it up, the CL's are not long enough to tighten the tarp up at all! :oops: Should I just go back in and change it to the whoopies instead of the CL's then put the prussics on the whoopies so that I can sling it up as an all in one? Does anyone else use whoopies on your hammock ends and have you had any issues with not having enough space to use them?

Also, I am not a fan of the spiders because of the way they crimp the webbing. I was using marlinespike hitches and toggles on my ENO and they were fine but was thinking of cinch buckles. Anyone suggest anything else? Thanks.

On a separate note, I (literally) got lost in the woods at my house today and found an AWESOME camp site next to the run where I have fresh water, a spot for the fire, a nice breeze, and a great view! WIN!


I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

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Re: HH Suspension Question

#2

Post by Scuba » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:38 pm

I would recommend changing to a cinch buckle suspension. BAsically replace your current 15 inch loops with new loops with a cinch buckle on it. If you'd like, I can make you a set and send them to you, but mine are SUPER cinch buckles, they have webbing on them so the buckle doesnt twist. Let me know.
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Re: HH Suspension Question

#3

Post by sarge » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:37 pm

I tried a number of suspensions, but kept going back to cinch buckles. Simple. Easy to use.

When I made that decision I was faced with what I should do with my Deep Jungle. I still liked having it around, and used it in winter months. But it had the stock suspension on it and I didn't want to do anything destructive to it to make the change. What I did was get a pair of "Quick draw lock n loads" from a guy who is now retired and out of business. They're simple little things, easily made, and used in climbing applications. There's a pair in the center of this pic:

Image

Essentially its a dog bone made of webbing. A cinch buckle is in the loop on one end, and the other end is an open loop. I ran the HH suspension rope through that open eye and tied it off. In the pic below you can see the HH rope with the prusik still on it:

Image

Then its just running the tree strap through the buckle and tying off a slip knot to secure it:

Image

You might be able to do something like that. Larks head your CL through the loop on the end of the quick draw, then run it through the end of the hammock. Making one is as easy as pie, just fold over some webbing and put some good stitching. This guy give a good tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y03wcd_Z1G4
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Re: HH Suspension Question

#4

Post by ADVStrom14 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:45 pm

Scuba wrote:I would recommend changing to a cinch buckle suspension. BAsically replace your current 15 inch loops with new loops with a cinch buckle on it. If you'd like, I can make you a set and send them to you, but mine are SUPER cinch buckles, they have webbing on them so the buckle doesnt twist. Let me know.
The cinch buckles solves the hardware issue. But do you just tie out your tarp separately or do you still use the all in one (assuming you use a HH). I want to be able to snap the tarp to the prussic knotted hooks so that I can cinch it all up in the snake skins. If I can figure that part out then I am interested in the cinch buckle proposition. :)
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Re: HH Suspension Question

#5

Post by Scuba » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:54 pm

separate. That way if it's raining, you can put your tarp up, then your hammock under it so it stays dry
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Re: HH Suspension Question

#6

Post by Eddie Robinson » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:33 am

I put continuous loops directly to the hammock, the a carabiner to whoopies slings, whoopies and continuous loops I made from 4mm(I think) dyneema/amsteel thst I got on ebay, the original prussiks of the fly grip it ok

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Re: HH Suspension Question

#7

Post by Canoefor2 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:06 am

I use the cinch buckle and hang my tarp separate. Handy this way in the rain.


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Re: RE: Re: HH Suspension Question

#8

Post by ADVStrom14 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:34 am

Eddie Robinson wrote:I put continuous loops directly to the hammock, the a carabiner to whoopies slings, whoopies and continuous loops I made from 4mm(I think) dyneema/amsteel thst I got on ebay, the original prussiks of the fly grip it ok

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I had this idea but I just changed my CLs back to the WSs then hooked the clips with the prussiks on the WSs. I guess the tension from the tarp cut out all adjustability in the WSs. I can see scuba's logic with separating the two pieces so I think I'm going to go back that way. I have an image in my head of how I will set up so I ordered some Dutch bling and hopefully that'll fix it. Thanks for the help everyone!

Jes
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Re: RE: Re: HH Suspension Question

#9

Post by BillyBob66 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:39 am

ADVStrom14 wrote:
Eddie Robinson wrote:I put continuous loops directly to the hammock, the a carabiner to whoopies slings, whoopies and continuous loops I made from 4mm(I think) dyneema/amsteel thst I got on ebay, the original prussiks of the fly grip it ok

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I had this idea but I just changed my CLs back to the WSs then hooked the clips with the prussiks on the WSs. I guess the tension from the tarp cut out all adjustability in the WSs. I can see scuba's logic with separating the two pieces so I think I'm going to go back that way. I have an image in my head of how I will set up so I ordered some Dutch bling and hopefully that'll fix it. Thanks for the help everyone!

Jes
It can be baffling trying to use the HH tarps prussicks with other than the stock suspension. The stock set up has some rather strong pros and cons, though for most folks it seems to be negatives.

The advantages of hanging the tarp separate are well known, such as pitching the tarp 1st in the rain, giving a dry area to unpack the hammock under. One advantage not quite as well known is ease of having a taught tarp pitch. I don't know if you have noticed yet, but once you get into the hammock and it sags towards the ground, the tarp has a tendency to become quite floppy. There are several tricks to mitigate this if you are determined to use the stock set up of tarp prussicked to HH suspension rope, but the easiest way to have a tight tarp is both ends to the trees.

However, there are solid positives to using the HH as designed and a penalty or 2 for not doing so. For example, are you still going to use that ultra light, small HH tarp? I find that most people who tie to the trees also use large, more expensive, heavier tarps. Think about it: how often do you see pictures of that small HH diamond shaped(in use) tarp? Not often. So how can tying to the trees be a problem with that tarp? Well, now when your hammock sags towards the ground, your tarp stays higher up. This always left me feeling highly exposed to windblown, sideways rain, the wind, and ground splash up. Not nearly as much if using the HHSS(protection from all of those by the UC), but still not the best tarp coverage unless that tiny tarp is right next to the hammock RL. Then you can get some pretty good coverage even with it.

The other pro is speed and convenience. There used to be a video of a gal packing up the stock tarp and hammock into snake skins that was just awesome, though I never quite had the courage to go that route. She would pull both tarp side points/edges down towards the ground keeping the hammock completely covered. The she would 1st fold back towards the top, then roll the tarp up, keeping the hammock of course inside the tarp, then with great speed slip snake skins over the tarp. While that looked wonderful, I always doubted it was a safe way to keep the hammock dry. But I had some guys who worked for HH tell me it was the best way they had found to keep everything dry(not insulation of course). Then once you get to camp, and hang the tarp/hammock containing snake skins between the trees, you simply undo the skins from one side enough to grab one tarp edge and pull it out and stake it, then the other side, and you are done, both hammock and tarp are up.

But, neat as that always seemed to me, I never really backpacked with that system and switched to a larger tarp ties to the trees.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: HH Suspension Question

#10

Post by Eddie Robinson » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:58 am

When I use the fly tarp with the hammock, to pack it I've always rolled one point one way and the other point the other way, sliding the skins over, if it was wet when I packed up I'd just have to dry it at home

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Re: RE: Re: HH Suspension Question

#11

Post by ADVStrom14 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:03 pm

BillyBob66 wrote:
However, there are solid positives to using the HH as designed and a penalty or 2 for not doing so. For example, are you still going to use that ultra light, small HH tarp? I find that most people who tie to the trees also use large, more expensive, heavier tarps. Think about it: how often do you see pictures of that small HH diamond shaped(in use) tarp? Not often. So how can tying to the trees be a problem with that tarp? Well, now when your hammock sags towards the ground, your tarp stays higher up. This always left me feeling highly exposed to windblown, sideways rain, the wind, and ground splash up. Not nearly as much if using the HHSS(protection from all of those by the UC), but still not the best tarp coverage unless that tiny tarp is right next to the hammock RL. Then you can get some pretty good coverage even with it.
I was having this thought this weekend as I hung in the woods in the most gorgeous weather and breeze. I did tie to the trees instead of the suspension and I noticed that the hammock was not really that covered after that while using that little tarp. As light as that hex tarp is that I bought originally, I will likely use it 90% of the time unless I know that there is no rain in sight on the trip I'm taking.
BillyBob66 wrote:The other pro is speed and convenience. There used to be a video of a gal packing up the stock tarp and hammock into snake skins that was just awesome, though I never quite had the courage to go that route. She would pull both tarp side points/edges down towards the ground keeping the hammock completely covered. The she would 1st fold back towards the top, then roll the tarp up, keeping the hammock of course inside the tarp, then with great speed slip snake skins over the tarp. While that looked wonderful, I always doubted it was a safe way to keep the hammock dry. But I had some guys who worked for HH tell me it was the best way they had found to keep everything dry(not insulation of course). Then once you get to camp, and hang the tarp/hammock containing snake skins between the trees, you simply undo the skins from one side enough to grab one tarp edge and pull it out and stake it, then the other side, and you are done, both hammock and tarp are up.
This is a good point too. The original reason I wanted to use the original suspension and the hammock/tarp together is for the speed of set up but you're right, I have a hard time believing that the hammock stays dry when they are in there together and you are unrolling them at the same time. tried it again later on as I would if I were setting up in the rain and set up the tarp from the snake skins and then put up the hammock under the tarp. I feel like this is probably the better way to go just for the simple reason that there may be times that all I want is the tarp for a time and then set up the hammock either later or in another location. It also gives the option of pitching the tarp as a temporary shelter if I get caught in the storm before I have actually reached the camp site.

This hammock thing is a puzzle for sure but I have enjoyed trying to go through the process to figure out what is best. I have to keep reminding myself that what works for one trip may or may not work for the next one though depending on the location, weather, terrain, etc. Thanks for the advice and info!
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. -E. B. White

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Re: HH Suspension Question

#12

Post by BillyBob66 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:28 pm

One thing I got figured out about the hammock puzzle after maybe a year or 2: there's a whole lotta ways to get er done, whatever an individual can make work for themselves. And for me that has been a whole bunch of different ways and gear. Some times folks try brand or method A, then they give B a try, and not only does B work better for them but now A downright sucks. And I was that way myself for a while. But one day after adding several hammocks and tarps and various insulation methods, it dawned on me that there was nothing really wrong with the original system I started with: a bottom entry, HH Explorer UL insulate with a Super Shelter. Particularly nothing wrong with it after I figured out both the hammock, it's figure 8 suspension, and the HHSS. After all, after the miserable 1st night at 10,000+ feet and 22F, 9/1/06, those profoundly deep and comfortable sleeps that hooked me on hammock camping, occurred in that set up. So really, how much better can you get than that, than really, really comfy?

So once in a while, even though maybe now it s not my overall fav, I still go back to that system on occasion just for fun and old times sake. BTW, one thing I figured out that has made the fig 8 system far less of a problem: don't cinch the tree huggers down tight on the tree, not needed. Or at least leave 1 end not cinched. I finally figured this out while watching JacsRBetter videos about their Triglide suspension. The figure 8 hitch really becomes 2nd nature after a little practice, and is fail safe, so the #1 complaint people make about it is lack of adjustability. If the pitch is wrong, foot or head or overall height too high or low, redoing all of that is a royal pain. But when watching the JRB videos, they routinely just wrap the webbing around the distant side of tree just once, then slip the webbing through the triglide, and don't put the triglide too close to the tree. Sort of lie in this picture:
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/tree-saver-straps/

So 1st I make sure I have it centered as desired, before I ever do a figure 8, just hold it in place with 1/2 hitches until centered, then do my figure 8 hitchs. Then if something needs adjusting height wise, just pull on the hammock rope or webbing to take tension off, and move the tree hugger up or down as needed, both or just one. It always holds me just fine, and takes care of 90% of any adjustment issues I have. And then I can just use the HH suspension, including the prussicks/tarp if I feel like it. Lot of ways to get er done.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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