Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#16

Post by Mophead » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:32 am

I guess you could say that lol. This was the only one I could find. Someone else must have taken all the action shots. This one wasn't even fully loaded but at least you can see the concept.

Image

With the exception of the hip belt everything on the "pack" (the stand, tarp, shock cord, etc) had other uses for shelter or hunting.



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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#17

Post by dirtwheels » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:16 pm

I've got a question for you pack aficionados, once you've zeroed in on volume, outside fit & weight, what are the most important features you use ? What are the most important things in a pack to you.

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#18

Post by Scuba » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:57 pm

Comfort. You are talking something you are going to be carrying for hours at a time, days on end.
- Well padded shoulder straps, and load lifters.
- Well fitting, well padded waist belt.

Function. Being able to access your pack quickly and easily is paramount.
- Is the pack HIGHLY water resistant? Wet gear sucks.
- How do you get into the pack? Roll top? Front loading zip? I love 99% of the things about my Zimmerpack, but having to go through the roll top EVERY time to get stuff out, and God forbid it's in the bottom...I am going to either buy a Zpacks Arc Haul zip or see if Chris at Zimmerbuilt will mod my pack to give it a front load zipper. The functionality of a front panel load pack is multiple times better than a roll top only pack.
- External pockets. I love the Zimmerbuilt's external pockets designed to store my hammocks and tarp. In looking at the Zpacks Arc Haul Zip, I have decided I can put my Freebird in side pocket and my tarp in the pocket on the other side. Store my internal pack items in cuben sacks, and i will be able to access them easily through the front panel.
- External compression straps, loops, attachment points? Do you need them? Does it have them? Where are they located? I like a set of straps on the bottom so I can attach my Helinox seat on the outside. Do the shoulder straps have ladders sewn onto them? They make it convenient to attach items like cameras, phones, GPS...Some people like the trekking pole holders some manufacturers put on, do you want them?


I am coming to think the best pack for me is the Zpack Arc Haul Zip. Based on weight (about 27 ounces and can easily haul 35 pounds), durability ( made with Dyneema X instead of the regular Arc Zips Cuben Fiber), comfort (the Arc suspension system is amazingly comfortable) and Price (a little pricey at close to $400 with the options I want on it, but I paid $390 for my custom Zimmerbuilt pack, so...), and I love the fact that is has a front panel load zipper AND a roll top to allow me to decide how I want to get into the interior.
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#19

Post by sarge » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:43 am

Yep. Comfort.

Some of the most comfortable packs I've ever worn were the most comfortable to wear. Over a long haul, that can get to be a problem if you need to keep a schedule as it will make you slower.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#20

Post by BillyBob66 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:28 am

sarge wrote:Yep. Comfort.

Some of the most comfortable packs I've ever worn were the most comfortable to wear. Over a long haul, that can get to be a problem if you need to keep a schedule as it will make you slower.
Could you rephrase that? I am a bit slow this morning, and can not quite figure out what you mean.
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#21

Post by sarge » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:32 am

Heavier packs = slower walking and getting tired faster = less miles per day. OK if you're on short weekend overnights, but over a long haul trip where you might need to meet someone for pick up and you're 6 miles from that trailhead at the time you need to be there, or you might spend an extra night in the woods b/c you didn't put in the miles you thought you might.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#22

Post by BillyBob66 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:57 am

1:Comfort. I have suffered under many a miserable load on long multi-day trips. By miserable I mean my back and shoulders and various other spots were in various amounts of pain. However, the question that arises from this is: how much of the misery was due to the packs inability to handle the load, and how much simply due to the enormity of the load, regardless of the pack used? I vote for a whole lot of it being from the huge load, but that is not to say that a given pack could not make the misery of that heavy load more or less miserable. But it can just be hard for an individual(or at least for me) to say with certainty how much comfort(or lack thereof) is due to the weight vs the pack. Either can be big factors, but once I start getting below 25 lbs, my ~ 2 lb no frame(CCF pad only) Golight Pinnacle seems to be as good as is ever needed. OTOH, if I throw that 25 lb or less load into my 6 lb McHale, I don't ever really seem to notice the added 4 lbs, I suppose because the pack is so dang comfy, with comfort maintained with much heavier loads. Yes I know I will have to expend more energy to carry the extra 4 lbs up the mountain, but I am only considering comfort of my back, shoulders, hips whatever for this decision. Possibly being more important than the pack's added weight.

2: Volume. Especially when cold, wet weather is a distinct possibility, I can not stand struggling trying to get everything stuffed into a tiny pack, leading to a large amount of compression. Plus, if I am packing up every day and moving 5 or 10 miles in the steep mountains, I find I spend a lot of time and effort during camp breakdown trying to accomplish the above every morning. And if I have to go back into that pack for something, then trying to get it all back in there? No thanks, I prefer to have more than adequate volume even if it cost me a few oz or more. My 2 lb Pinnacle is 4000 ci, which is almost enough for my cold weather gear without excessive compression required, but since those loads may start pushing well past 30 lbs, maybe even 40+( depending on how long and how cold/wet of course), I don't think it carries all that well with those loads. But, I have gotten by without too much discomfort, but I did find myself wishing for one of my heavier packs, either the Molly MacPack or my brute Mchale ( each is a Mac! ). But one more day of food and a bit more insulation needed, I definitely would opt for a different pack with more volume and comfort. Often, a whole lot of extra volume only cost an oz or 2. But, if that volume also means you are going to carry a lot more weight, as opposed only to not having to compress stuff so much, then the weight of the pack is probably going to increase a lot more for comfort, due to heavier frames and thick pads. Duh, as if Y'all did not already know that!
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#23

Post by BillyBob66 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:51 am

sarge wrote:Yep. Comfort.

Some of the most comfortable packs I've ever worn were the most comfortable to wear. Over a long haul, that can get to be a problem if you need to keep a schedule as it will make you slower.........................

Heavier packs = slower walking and getting tired faster = less miles per day. OK if you're on short weekend overnights, but over a long haul trip where you might need to meet someone for pick up and you're 6 miles from that trailhead at the time you need to be there, or you might spend an extra night in the woods b/c you didn't put in the miles you thought you might.
OK, I get the fact that a heavier pack- particularly a 20 lb heavier total load rather more so than just a pack that is 2 lb heavier- can slow you down significantly. But when you say " Some of the most comfortable packs I've ever worn were the most comfortable to wear. Over a long haul, that can get to be a problem if you need to keep a schedule as it will make you slower" I'm still not getting you. You seem to be saying the most comfy packs are the most comfy packs?

Is it that you are saying that the most comfortable packs allow you to carry a heavier load and still be comfortable? And thus one might be tempted to carry a heavier load than really needed, which- even though still plenty comfy might then become a problem if it slows you down? Or, something else? Sorry to be so slow, I just want to make sure I am getting your point!
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#24

Post by sarge » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:31 pm

Well, the two most comfortable packs I've worn are the M42 Mountain Rucksack, and the Fox Tactical Mountaineering Pack.

I don't have a weight on the M42 but "tubular steel frame" should give you an idea. It was the pack of my yoot, and back in the 1960's & 70's, the best technology available.

The Fox pack weighs 5 pounds empty. I shed 3 pounds going to the Zimmerbuilt, at a cost of a small amount of comfort (not enough to notice or make it worth carrying the 3 extra pounds, and functionality was about equal.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#25

Post by BillyBob66 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:39 pm

dirtwheels wrote:I've got a question for you pack aficionados, once you've zeroed in on volume, outside fit & weight, what are the most important features you use ? What are the most important things in a pack to you.
I answered you already, saying comfort and volume, but I just realized you were asking about once volume was already zeroed in, so not a factor. The main thing is that, whatever the load I end up with, that the weight does not end up supported by my shoulders, and that if that is achieved with most weight transferred to my hips, that I still don't end up with an aching neck, back and/or hips. I have had more than one pack that seemed to transfer the weight to my hips well enough, but still ended up hurting in these various areas. I don't know of any way to really test this except to hit the trail with the required load, and see how you feel after a few hours.

My first experience with pack pain was back in June 1985, when I went on a NOLS mountaineering course in WY. We were in the wilderness at high altitudes for 30 straight days. Which, with helmets, ropes, ice axes, winter gear, and 7 days of food at 3000 calories per day, gave me a 75 lb pack. ( my 194 lb starting body weight was 172 lbs 30 days later ) Only one guy took an internal frame pack, a large Gregory, as the instructors discouraged all but external frame. I rented a Kelty from NOLS. It's stout metal frame no doubt transferred the weight well, but I was still miserable every day. Lot's of places hurt. As was every one else. Including the internal frame guy, who always seemed to struggle more than any one else with getting everything packed into the pack. I have often wondered if any pack, like say my current McHale, could have made that heavy load any less miserable than it was. I don't know, maybe a little, but my max since then has frequently been 55 lb, and of course for the last 10 years or so, usually way less than 45 lbs, even down into the 20s.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#26

Post by dirtwheels » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:09 am

Thanks, comfort is my number one but I like the idea of other features I have not tried. I carry a Go-Lite Jam 50, it's shoulder pads are not as thick or comfortable as I'd prefer. But overall I am please with the cinch and roll top access. I do wish it had a mesh pocket for stashing my tarp and rain gear. As far as wet gear I carry my hammock with bugnet attached and quilts in place in a dry bag and sleep clothes in one as well. In the rain I throw on a poncho to protect the pack. It works well up to 25 pounds but if using the straps to support much of the weight I think it tops out at about 30.

I'm mainly looking for a 25 - 30 liter for 3 season weekend trips. I've been eying the arc blast but not sold just yet.
Scuba wrote:Comfort. You are talking something you are going to be carrying for hours at a time, days on end.
- Well padded shoulder straps, and load lifters.
- Well fitting, well padded waist belt.

Function. Being able to access your pack quickly and easily is paramount.
- Is the pack HIGHLY water resistant? Wet gear sucks.
- How do you get into the pack? Roll top? Front loading zip? I love 99% of the things about my Zimmerpack, but having to go through the roll top EVERY time to get stuff out, and God forbid it's in the bottom...I am going to either buy a Zpacks Arc Haul zip or see if Chris at Zimmerbuilt will mod my pack to give it a front load zipper. The functionality of a front panel load pack is multiple times better than a roll top only pack.
- External pockets. I love the Zimmerbuilt's external pockets designed to store my hammocks and tarp. In looking at the Zpacks Arc Haul Zip, I have decided I can put my Freebird in side pocket and my tarp in the pocket on the other side. Store my internal pack items in cuben sacks, and i will be able to access them easily through the front panel.
- External compression straps, loops, attachment points? Do you need them? Does it have them? Where are they located? I like a set of straps on the bottom so I can attach my Helinox seat on the outside. Do the shoulder straps have ladders sewn onto them? They make it convenient to attach items like cameras, phones, GPS...Some people like the trekking pole holders some manufacturers put on, do you want them?


I am coming to think the best pack for me is the Zpack Arc Haul Zip. Based on weight (about 27 ounces and can easily haul 35 pounds), durability ( made with Dyneema X instead of the regular Arc Zips Cuben Fiber), comfort (the Arc suspension system is amazingly comfortable) and Price (a little pricey at close to $400 with the options I want on it, but I paid $390 for my custom Zimmerbuilt pack, so...), and I love the fact that is has a front panel load zipper AND a roll top to allow me to decide how I want to get into the interior.

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#27

Post by dirtwheels » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:22 am

Thanks BB, I like my Golight Jam 50 and I don't use a lot of individual stuff sacks and the ones I use I try to make them over sized so the are loose as I place them in the pack. I compress them together as I fill the pack and they conform to the pack. I almost always put a sit pad in the hydration sleeve to smooth up the back and provide a little extra padding.

I'm pretty satisfied with the Jam and almost never fill it. But I keep looking for a 25-30 liter pack for three season. The main disappointment for me is the straps. I play golf and carry a 35 pound bag 18 holes or 5 miles with zero stress on my shoulders, I realize that I take that weight off several times each hole and the weight is not on my shoulders constantly for those 5 miles. But as I carry hiking I transfer from my shoulders to hips but find my shoulders sometimes are feeling a bit at the end of the day.

Good to chat with you again!
BillyBob66 wrote:1:Comfort. I have suffered under many a miserable load on long multi-day trips. By miserable I mean my back and shoulders and various other spots were in various amounts of pain. However, the question that arises from this is: how much of the misery was due to the packs inability to handle the load, and how much simply due to the enormity of the load, regardless of the pack used? I vote for a whole lot of it being from the huge load, but that is not to say that a given pack could not make the misery of that heavy load more or less miserable. But it can just be hard for an individual(or at least for me) to say with certainty how much comfort(or lack thereof) is due to the weight vs the pack. Either can be big factors, but once I start getting below 25 lbs, my ~ 2 lb no frame(CCF pad only) Golight Pinnacle seems to be as good as is ever needed. OTOH, if I throw that 25 lb or less load into my 6 lb McHale, I don't ever really seem to notice the added 4 lbs, I suppose because the pack is so dang comfy, with comfort maintained with much heavier loads. Yes I know I will have to expend more energy to carry the extra 4 lbs up the mountain, but I am only considering comfort of my back, shoulders, hips whatever for this decision. Possibly being more important than the pack's added weight.

2: Volume. Especially when cold, wet weather is a distinct possibility, I can not stand struggling trying to get everything stuffed into a tiny pack, leading to a large amount of compression. Plus, if I am packing up every day and moving 5 or 10 miles in the steep mountains, I find I spend a lot of time and effort during camp breakdown trying to accomplish the above every morning. And if I have to go back into that pack for something, then trying to get it all back in there? No thanks, I prefer to have more than adequate volume even if it cost me a few oz or more. My 2 lb Pinnacle is 4000 ci, which is almost enough for my cold weather gear without excessive compression required, but since those loads may start pushing well past 30 lbs, maybe even 40+( depending on how long and how cold/wet of course), I don't think it carries all that well with those loads. But, I have gotten by without too much discomfort, but I did find myself wishing for one of my heavier packs, either the Molly MacPack or my brute Mchale ( each is a Mac! ). But one more day of food and a bit more insulation needed, I definitely would opt for a different pack with more volume and comfort. Often, a whole lot of extra volume only cost an oz or 2. But, if that volume also means you are going to carry a lot more weight, as opposed only to not having to compress stuff so much, then the weight of the pack is probably going to increase a lot more for comfort, due to heavier frames and thick pads. Duh, as if Y'all did not already know that!

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#28

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:24 pm

dirtwheels wrote:.....................

Good to chat with you again! .................
Same back at you! Help me remember, weren't you one of my fellow ( and rare) HHSS users? Or was that someone else?
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#29

Post by dirtwheels » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:02 pm

That's right, we had several discussions on the HHSS, and a few on vapor barriers. You helped me out quite a bit.

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Re: Let's talk pack weights, like 2lb or < vs >3-4lb or more!

#30

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 pm

dirtwheels wrote:That's right, we had several discussions on the HHSS, and a few on vapor barriers. You helped me out quite a bit.
Excellent! Back in the old days, eh?
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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