Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

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BillyBob66
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Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#1

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:29 pm

Recently I finally gave up on ever getting a winter this year. We have had some really good ones in recent years, including more snow than usual and me being able to set a PB at 6F(in an HHSS) with minimal gear compared to other personal bests. But this year is the longest warm spell for late Dec I can ever remember here in the SE. Though amazingly, we still have not been setting many records to speak of, though very close. Seems most of those records were set back in the 30s. Anyway, I have given up and have dragged my warm gear to the woods, pretending like it is winter. This got me thinking about what some of my fav ways to stay warm in a hammock are. What are yours? ( I'm betting DIY and Costco quilts will be very popular at this forum! )

First to come to mind is a Peapod. Though I can not play with those anymore, as I sold mine last year. I have missed it. Especially when used on a 10 ft long, 4 ft wide Claytor No Net, which remains at or near the top of my most comfy hammocks. And it never seems to go on sale over at TTTrailgear.com . Since I don't have one right now, I may not cover that, for now.

But along with the Peapod, one of the most efficient, consistent, luxurious and bomb proof cold weather systems I have ever used is the combo of the original(the deeper, narrower one with the removable net) JRB Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock(BMBH). I have never had so much as a cold spot using this system ( down to 10F). And I have never had to make an adjustment or experiment with things like shock cord tension. And it is not possible for me to slip off of the insulation or to have the quilt slip off of my shoulder, regardless of how I position myself in the hammock.
Image

One reason this works so well is because I suspect that both hammock and UQ were designed to perfectly fit. When I say I have never had to make an adjustment, that is because I could not even if I wanted to, not if I attached according to JRB directions:
Image

Not sure if you can tell, but look closely and you will see that the "suspension" elastics are not even attached to the quilt. There are loops on the hammock, which pass through the suspension loops on the quilt, and then the suspension biners attach to the hammock, not to the quilt! (there is a spare unused mini-biner in that picture- ignore it ). Much as with the HHSS(and a positive for that system IMO), the quilts relationship/fit to the hammock is fixed. The quilt hangs down some inches beneath the hammock(much as with the Peapod) until it is occupied, and then the hammock sinks down into the differential cut UQ just the right amount for a snug fit head to heel. First time every time.

Both ends always seem to conform perfectly to the shape of the hammock. The directions say to slightly snug up the end drawstrings so that quilt meets hammock foot end edge, but it doesn't make much difference if I ignore that. Notice the loose drawstrings on the end, hard to see):
Image

One of the frequent complaints about this hammock is how deep and narrow it is, causing many to complain of shoulder squeeze, plus some don't like the poor visibility that causes. ( I have noticed at another forum it never even gets a mention anymore for fav hammocks, in a recent thread a WB bridge dominated, along with a WBBB XL picked by a few. But though I am a fairly big, broad shouldered guy, I am always amazed when I drag this hammock back out to be reminded how the lack of shoulder room or poor visibility is a non-issue for me. I have the less deep UL BMBH, which has more shoulder room and better vis, and the WBRR, which has even more shoulder room and vis. But once I am ready to go to sleep flat on my back, I just can not say that either of those hammocks is significantly more comfy that this one, nor is any other hammock, FOR ME. I am totally comfy flat on my back, and I often sleep on my side anyway, and once even slightly on my side there is zero shoulder squeeze. How could there be, with one shoulder to the upside and not even in contact with the hammock?

OTOH, I have always felt this deep, narrow hammock might even have some winter advantages due to that design. Number 1 is that those deep sides give me a great prop when I get partly on my side, and that UQ is always snug up against both sides.

But the other reason is, I suspect that these deep sides which funnel down into a U or V shape cause the UQ to tend to drop down on top of me, sort of like how weight causes a liquid to flow through a funnel. There also is a large overlap between the side and top edge of the UQ and the edge of the TQ. I can't prove it, but I suspect something like that is going on. And seems to me I find it easier to stay warm under a TQ in this hammock, closer to a sleeping bag. I.E., fewer drafts. Think of it this way: there is really no room for the edge of the TQ to drift left or right and get lifted up on an edge, causing a draft. Seems that way to me, at least. I could be wrong. All I know is: I have always been warm, and seem to have fewer draft issues, with no fiddle factor, in this combo. YMMV.

The gap at the side/edge tightens up a lot once the hammock is occupied. Not sure it even matters, it is tight against the hammock anywhere you might be compressing a bag or TQ. Notice how the steep sides of the hammock would tend to keep the edges of a quilt snugged up against you, even if not tucked under you:
Image
Deep down in the hammock:
Image

I will give some more of my favs in the following posts in this thread. What about you guys and gals? What is your fav cold weather hammock gear?
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.


Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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BillyBob66
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Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#2

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:38 pm

I forgot one last possible advantage to the above system, as well as a PeaPod: elastics play no role in keeping the proper tension of the UQ against your back. Over the years, as I have read threads from folks struggling with the learning curve of how to get X UQ to keep them warm, one suspect that has come up a few times is elastic shock cord losing strength when the temps really plummet, allowing an UQ to sag away from the hammock before dawn. I do not recall if those who worried about this decided that that simply caused an inconvenience of having to tighten up the suspension in the middle of the night. I do not know if this is actually a potential problem, but if it is the above set up will not suffer from it, just as the Speer Peapod does not.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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sarge
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Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#3

Post by sarge » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:52 pm

I think you're right on the UQ coming up on the sides thing---its one of the reasons I like a wide UQ on a gathered end hammock. I'm of the oinion that anytime you create a "still space", you've created a place for warm air to gather. While it will still "travel up" it won't get swept away by air movement coming from the sides and the ends. I suspect that's why you're warmer with your TQ in the bridge.

I've always been curious, though, about the uninsulated ends of a bridge. It would seem to me that you'd get at least some conductive transfer from those end pieces with no insulation on them.
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BillyBob66
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#4

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:59 pm

sarge wrote:I think you're right on the UQ coming up on the sides thing---its one of the reasons I like a wide UQ on a gathered end hammock. I'm of the oinion that anytime you create a "still space", you've created a place for warm air to gather. While it will still "travel up" it won't get swept away by air movement coming from the sides and the ends. I suspect that's why you're warmer with your TQ in the bridge.

I've always been curious, though, about the uninsulated ends of a bridge. It would seem to me that you'd get at least some conductive transfer from those end pieces with no insulation on them.
Well, you will get some conduction loss if you slide into the end caps, although it seems, at least on the head end where I can reach out and feel, once the hammock sinks into the UQ, the head end of the UQ sort of rises up a bit to above head level supplying some non-compressed insulation(and plenty under the head). But while wind might penetrate, there should be no conduction unless you are sliding down into the end caps, which should not be a problem if hung correctly. Wind, however, might be an issue. But, neither wind nor conduction may really be much more of an issue than when using the same or similar UQs/TQs in a gathered end. And most especially when using partial length UQs like a Yeti

I suppose if I was in a situation where I could not block the wind with a sheltered spot, my tarp or a sock when using the BMBH/MWUQ, I would take a sit or leg pad, preferably one cut to about a square foot or the shape of the end of the hammock and place it there to block the wind. I have not so far had this problem. Since I would be depending on the loft in the foot box of my TQ for my feet just as for my topside( or my hood for my head), just as I am depending on the loft of the UQ for my side and back, then wind on the foot end would be the same as wind on the sides or underneath. It will need to be blocked in all cases. Does that at all make sense?

Or, here is a thought for a mod: and end cap made of totally windproof material. It could even be sil-nylon since - depending on your height- the TQ shell or hood should not be in contact with the end cap. Or maybe WPB rain gear material? But, so far, has not been an issue as is. So far. But to avoid the conductive loss, have the hammock level enough to avoid sliding, then the TQ or hoods uncompressed loft should handle it.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

kev137
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Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#5

Post by kev137 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:19 am

I have had good luck so far with my ripstop by the roll 5.0 oz Climashield under quilt kit. Kept me warm in the low 30's when I was in north Ga for thanksgiving. Also had luck with my snugpak underblanket at about the same temps last year. I use the tato over the ridgeline quilt hooks to keep them snug against my hammock. Living and camping mostly in Florida they are all I really need.
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BillyBob66
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#6

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:29 pm

kev137 wrote:I have had good luck so far with my ripstop by the roll 5.0 oz Climashield under quilt kit. Kept me warm in the low 30's when I was in north Ga for thanksgiving. Also had luck with my snugpak underblanket at about the same temps last year. I use the tato over the ridgeline quilt hooks to keep them snug against my hammock. Living and camping mostly in Florida they are all I really need.
Good to know. The next item I will cover is a CS UQ on both bridges and gathered end.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
BillyBob66
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Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: Despite the endless summer, fav under insulation?

#7

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:52 pm

Here is a picture of the old, original, CS WB Yeti on the same old, original JRB BMBH in the OP, from the same day. This is really one great UQ, though small in size and coverage. Cannibal had used it to below zero with all 4 layers ( 2.5 oz sq yd per layer X 4 = 10 OSY, total quilt weight about 18-19 oz)). I have not used it very much in winter, having used 1 layer (quilt total weight about 10 oz ) under a gathered hammock mid 40s and was warm). My son has used it with several layers installed to be totally warm- even 1st night ever in a hammock, plus no secondary suspension) mid 20sF. It just seems to always work like a charm. Would also be relatively resistant to moisture.
Image

I have never used this on a bridge hammock, as you see it here. When I tried it previously on a bridge, it just did not seem to fit right, I always felt like it was sagging a bit under the hammock. But since I added a secondary suspension, it feels snug as a bug in a rug on any hammock. Of course, it is not as high above my shoulders as the wider JRB MWUQ, so it may not keep my back as warm if I get on my side and lean back against the hammock sides as I like to do. And my head and feet are not insulated. Have to take care of that with a foot pad and/or pillow/pad. And have to try and keep my feet on the pad, not really hard in this deep hammock. But, at a similar temp rating, I save about 7-9 oz even with synthetic, and it has what I consider the moisture advantages of synthetic unless using treated down. And, it still has not offered to slip off my shoulders or anything else, and is very tight and warm up against my back and butt. Pros and cons.

Do you notice all that loose material hanging under it? That doesn't look all that great, does it? That is because the outer shell is cut significantly larger than the inner, so even if you pull the suspension really tight, you can not compress the CS loft. All of the CS is stitched snug up against the inner shell that is against your back. Plus, you say you have only one or two layers in and the temp falls way lower than expected? No problem, at least if you have some insulation you are not wearing to bed! Unzip the foot end, and stuff something like a zipped up down vest or even a bunch of dry leaves(if you are lucky enough to have such) and add several inches of loft! It is a great system!
Image
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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