What would it take?

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sarge
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Re: What would it take?

#136

Post by sarge » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:18 pm

As George Orwell would say

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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: What would it take?

#137

Post by GregD » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:26 pm

sarge wrote:
GregD wrote:
sarge wrote: His point is that how someone feels does not change their DNA or chromosomes.

That's a point that psychiatrists and surgeons make sure that a person contemplating gender reassignment surgery knows and understands before they perform the surgery.
I thought this was obvious to everyone.

sarge wrote: Why would that be insensitive, and why not just come out and say it?

Transgendered and transitioning persons know all this and understand it as a condition of treatment, why can't we say it without being labled as hateful?
Where did insensitive and hateful come from? I see nothing insensitive or hateful about the way you stated the facts above.
Dude.

You've used ther word "insensitive" about a dozen times in the past couple of posts.
Yes I have. In reference to other statements unrelated to the fact you state here.

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Re: What would it take?

#138

Post by Scott » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:33 pm

Since this topic is still lingering...

First, on the example of my friends who had to choose the SEX of their child, it was due to an incomplete formed reproduction system, but the DNA was clearly male in later tests. I am confident that if they had been able to get a DNA test, and chosen male, the child would have had a very normal male life since she never felt her GENDER should be female, even though she was raised female. Her GENDER gravitated to male because of her DNA.

Second - in the argument of nature vs nurture. I believe the concept of GENDER is so complex we cannot really understand the why of it from one person to another. Say I am an athlete, and I push my son to be athletic. He may resist and get pushed the other way and chose to be more feminine as an unconscious rebellion against my pushing him. Or, if I don't expose him to enough masculine activities and I let him play barbies and paint his nails all his life, he may choose that path, or not. And a different son, exposed to the same input, may choose differently. We can't know how our environment influences children exactly. If we could, I could eliminate all stress and arguments when my teens suddenly know more than I do.

I do believe that there are definitely people who are not comfortable in their natural state and try to change it. That is their right. Until the tak*a*dic*off*o*me procedure is complete, use a different room. I think we come to an agreement earlier in the thread that my daughters feelings matter as much as the trans feeling matter, so we don't need to argue this one. Move to all single stall, or make them all communal. Anyone can use any facility any time they want. If women don't want to use one after a nasty man has been in there, oh well. Keeping them clean will be up to the facility managers. Same with locker rooms. No more open locker rooms. Individual changing rooms. Issue would then be dead. But if the true intent of all the attention to make everyone accept them and conform, that issue will live on.

I don't believe a 5 year old has a clue about the complexities of life to make that dramatic of a decision (I mean, they still believe in Santa Claus). Yet the law in certain states allows them to self identify.

I also believe that the more the media and society in general make gender and sexuality the focus of so much of what we do, that more and more young teen girls will choose to be lesbians, not that they are 'born' that way. They will choose to not bother with the opposite sex since the role of mother and wife are being dismantled so quickly. I see it in my kids friends and I see it in several of my adult nieces.

It is my firm conviction everyone needs to be treated with respect and as a person. I don't have time or energy to make everyone think and act like I do. But please don't try to make me think and act like anyone else. Hate crimes, thought police, intentions, intolerance, they all scare me because the law is applied differently based on things you cannot measure or see. It is still America, I can think how I want.
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Re: What would it take?

#139

Post by sarge » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:59 pm

Well on the subject of "Its what the majority of your fellow voters want."there's this.
There is only a small gender gap as American voters say 56 - 36 percent that schools should not be required to allow transgender students to use bathrooms and locker rooms consistent with their own gender identity. Men oppose the requirement 63 - 30 percent, with women opposed 49 - 42 percent.

Voters 18 to 34 years old are divided as 45 percent support the transgender requirement, with 47 percent opposed.

The bathroom issue is "very important," 41 percent of voters say, and 27 percent say it is "somewhat important."
20 points.

I think that's what's called "a mandate."
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: What would it take?

#140

Post by GregD » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:40 pm

sarge wrote:Well on the subject of "Its what the majority of your fellow voters want."there's this.
There is only a small gender gap as American voters say 56 - 36 percent that schools should not be required to allow transgender students to use bathrooms and locker rooms consistent with their own gender identity. Men oppose the requirement 63 - 30 percent, with women opposed 49 - 42 percent.

Voters 18 to 34 years old are divided as 45 percent support the transgender requirement, with 47 percent opposed.

The bathroom issue is "very important," 41 percent of voters say, and 27 percent say it is "somewhat important."
20 points.

I think that's what's called "a mandate."
That is a poll, not an election.

Even so, DOMA was popular 20 years ago. Today not so much.

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Re: What would it take?

#141

Post by TXyakr » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:31 pm

As usual in national and local primary elections for much smaller offices I am very disappointed in who others have chosen. I'm not concerned if the person I vote for wins or not I try to always vote for the person I believe is best, and a decent person as well. Cynically I'm fairly sure that the Texas electoral votes will all go for D. Trump so technically my vote doesn't matter, so much for democracy. Now why did we allow thousands of our soldiers to die trying to establish democracy in Iraq??? We are clueless about it here in the USA...

I don't agree with the liberal moral views of the Libertarian Party, but also don't believe that beyond a certain point it is possible to legislate morality so their views don't bother me that much. I watched one of the L.P. debates and also some interviews with the leading P and VP candidates (Gary Johnson and that other Governor, forgot his name...). They both seem like decent sensible people, not dishonest or raving lunatics (an act or not?) so at least I will not regret voting for them. Perhaps when the Republican party implodes under the foolishness of their current leadership, including D.T., the L.P. will win some future Presidential election, but if a reasonable conservative party ever replaces the Republican party I would seriously consider supporting that new party. George Washington was correct in his Farewell Address: Political Parties are just bad for America. Impossible to get rid of this party system now its like changing a bad hair style, or wearing something other than a pant suit... (OH I know that was low and personal attacks are childish, but seeing all this childish behavior on the TV is contagious, some fool on TV every news cycle for the last 12 months/years has done a lot to lower our standards...)
Last edited by TXyakr on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would it take?

#142

Post by sarge » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:32 pm

Well,

I think that a 20 point margin is an indication of how it would go if Authoritarian Democrats actually allowed us to vote on whether we force schools to make their bathrooms unisex instead of handling it through the bureacracy and threatening to take food from hungry poor children's mouths by with holding Federal Funding if they don't.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: What would it take?

#143

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:20 pm

Has any one noticed that numerous liberal performers have denied services to people who do not vote the way they want them to, or who view moral questions differently than they do? Ironically, it is their fans they hit the hardest with their cancelled concerts and such, fans that mostly likely share many of their liberal outlooks.

They say "what, you neanderthal's want to give someone the freedom to deny services from their private business ( say, bake a cake - i.e.private in the sense that it is their money and labor- not the taxpayers- at risk in that business. ). You want to deny it because you do not agree with their life styles and way of thinking? Well that is just awful. I think I will deny services to your state and instruct my private business not to deal with you at all. "

The thing is, I think they are well within their rights to do so. Unfortunately, they believe government should bankrupt or jail someone who refuses to bake a cake for celebration of a lifestyle that they find abhorrent or just simply sinful. These performers think we should be forced by government to provide services, and even say certain words. EDIT: They wish to deny us the very rights/freedoms they are happy to take advantage of themselves. In other words, they wish to enslave. I'm sure if they could, they would send us all to some soviet style Gulag or re-education camp to get our head right. With "right" being what they say is right.

But while they wish to force a correct mind set on us, and are willing to deny us services because we make it legal for US to deny services ( their right and morally right for them), they refuse us the same rights. Why can't I have the same rights as Bruce Springfield(SP?)? :roll:

But I have another question for the scientifically minded. Help me to understand. If the body's chromosomes and born with physical attributes are one sex ( either male or female) but the brain provides thoughts that tell the person they are the opposite sex, which is right? Is the body mistaken and/or sick, or the mind, as in mental illness? When the mind and body are in such disagreement, can both be right? That doesn't seem likely. But if not both right, then which is wrong?
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: What would it take?

#144

Post by Fastmatt » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:21 am

BillyBob66 wrote:Has any one noticed that numerous liberal performers have denied services to people who do not vote the way they want them to, or who view moral questions differently than they do? Ironically, it is their fans they hit the hardest with their cancelled concerts and such, fans that mostly likely share many of their liberal outlooks.

They say "what, you neanderthal's want to give someone the freedom to deny services from their private business ( say, bake a cake - i.e.private in the sense that it is their money and labor- not the taxpayers- at risk in that business. ). You want to deny it because you do not agree with their life styles and way of thinking? Well that is just awful. I think I will deny services to your state and instruct my private business not to deal with you at all.

The thing is, I think they are well within their rights to do so. Unfortunately, they believe government should bankrupt or jail someone who refuses to bake a cake for celebration of a lifestyle that they find abhorrent or just simply sinful. These performers think we should be forced by government to provide services, and even say certain words. In other words, they wish to enslave. I'm sure if they could, they would send us all to some soviet style Gulag or re-education camp to get our head right. With "right" being what they say is right.

But while they wish to force a correct mind set on us, and are willing to deny us services because we make it legal for US to deny services ( their right and morally right for them), they refuse us the same rights. Why can't I have the same rights as Bruce Springfield(SP?)? :roll:

But I have another question for the scientifically minded. Help me to understand. If the body's chromosomes and born with physical attributes are one sex ( either male or female) but the brain provides thoughts that tell the person they are the opposite sex, which is right? Is the body mistaken and/or sick, or the mind, as in mental illness? When the mind and body are in such disagreement, can both be right? That doesn't seem likely. But if not both right, then which is wrong?
Well first off I'm gonna try and keep this as respectful as possible and mean no offense as I harbor no ill will towards any but my words may not be very palatable. Dna chromosomes etc are what makes you make or female generally we all know both male and female parts but sometimes there is an abnormality in the physical development.which is why I say it's in the structure . With that being said it is my opinion that bother homosexuality and trans sexual is a brain abnormality . If your structure says your a male you are a male it doesn't matter what you feel like you are a male period generally speaking with fully developed male organs. You are a male so even if you surgically remove your reproductive organs you are still a male it is not scientifically possible to trans gender. It's just a play on words . With that being said (again no offence) these are some of the only brain abnormalities that we as a society are less than I a hurry to identify origin and treat medically. Most other brain abnormalities are treated or attempted to treat. Instead in these cases society has chosen to ignore the abonormallity as a potentially treatable condition and instead refer to them as "life choices, alternate lifestyles " etc. at the scientific root of it there is something not of the norm ,not of the intent of the design , as proof by the inability to breed due to incapatable sex organs. And since it's not of the norm it can only be described as abnormal and originating in the brain thus a brain abnormality. Which again society has refused to acknowledge as the reality and instead addresses these cases not on a basis of medicine or science but on emotion driven decisions. Just my opinion with at least some facts to back it up.

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Re: What would it take?

#145

Post by sarge » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:17 am

You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

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Re: What would it take?

#146

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:41 pm

Sarge,
Did you intend to post something on this thread this morning?

Never mind. As soon as I posted, suddenly your video showed up.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: What would it take?

#147

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:46 pm

Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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