Gary Johnson, the Liberal

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#31

Post by dirtwheels » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 am

A friend of mine who is very politically active and a competitive shooter posted a story about his comments that were agreeable to "assault weapons ban" and less than pro 2nd amendment comments. I do not recall accurately the contents of those comments and was unsuccessful in finding GJ's quotes that were shared by my friend.

GJ's readily accessible quotes are somewhat pro 2nd amendment, he is now even stating he recently purchased handguns for personal protection. I think the quotes posted by my friend were from years ago. You are correct that his current position statements do support more favorable conceal carry laws. I did not spend a lot of time searching so I can't confirm or support my comments that GJ is now or in the past anti-2nd amendment.

You are correct IMO that Hills is a criminal and I think Trumps history is somewhat liberal, and his ego is so great that it obscures his proclaimed pivot to conservative principles.

My personal dilemma is that after casting 2 votes against Obama's progressive agenda I promised myself that that was the last time I would vote solely against a candidate for president. I hate breaking promises, and right now I'm unsure I can keep that one due to what I know about the absolute corruption that is Hillary.

The only thing that I can find to vote for Trump is his published list of SCOTUS judges and his sister not making that list.

Scott wrote:
dirtwheels wrote:The anti-2nd amendment comments among other things this nut says disqualifies him IMO.
I am genuinely interested. Could you elaborate on this a little? From what I have read he is the most gun friendly candidate, stating several times he does not think gun laws work, and he prefers more guns and chl to make criminals think twice before attacking someone...

I still think we are hosed this November regardless. Just how bad will be the question.

Hillary - Money hungry power hungry narcissistic lying prostitute (selling anything not nailed down for her own gain, not the call girl type) RAcist Senator Bird was her mentor yet she calls Trump Racist. Anyone but her.

Trump - Money hungry power hungry narcissistic unstable bully (by his own admission he is not bound by any ideals, he lives in the moment regardless of previous statements or promises by him) I don't think he is racist, I think he thinks every living thing is beneath him regardless of race or nationality. A real crapshoot, no idea what he will actually do if he wins.

Gary - personality of a stump. not fighting for the office. No real chance to win.

If Trump wins expect riots like we have never seen. Some people are bad losers.



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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#32

Post by GregD » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:06 am

kev137 wrote:I refuse to be held hostage by the notion that I must " chose the lesser of two evils".
How could it be otherwise? The US population is 350 million very different and unique individuals. The process of choosing the leadership and then governing such a large collection of human individuals is inevitably a process of compromise. And compromise often feels like choosing the lesser of two evils. The alternative to compromise is rule by force; do you think that would be better?

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#33

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:36 am

GregD wrote:
kev137 wrote:I refuse to be held hostage by the notion that I must " chose the lesser of two evils".
How could it be otherwise? The US population is 350 million very different and unique individuals. The process of choosing the leadership and then governing such a large collection of human individuals is inevitably a process of compromise. And compromise often feels like choosing the lesser of two evils. The alternative to compromise is rule by force; do you think that would be better?
By abandoning the idea that we only have two choices.

It really is that simple.

We're held captive in a prison of our own making. The only way out of it is to vote, but not participate in what has become a corrupt system that rewards rich oligarchs by presenting to us two evils from which to choose, and the only National Conversation that results is which one is worse so you're compelled to vote for the other one.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#34

Post by GregD » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:26 am

sarge wrote: By abandoning the idea that we only have two choices.

It really is that simple.

We're held captive in a prison of our own making. The only way out of it is to vote, but not participate in what has become a corrupt system that rewards rich oligarchs by presenting to us two evils from which to choose, and the only National Conversation that results is which one is worse so you're compelled to vote for the other one.
There were more than two choices during the primaries.

It is indeed a prison of our own making. If we were better at resolving issues locally there would be fewer issues to resolve nationally AND we would have a better view on those characteristics most helpful for national leadership. Abortion. Guns. Same-sex marriage. Transgender rights. Religious practices. There are many issues on which you and I appear to disagree. But how much effort do we spend on trying to resolve these differences, trying to find a compromise that we both find satisfactory? Not so much, it seems to me. Far too much focus on "fighting for" our particular positions, far too little focus on working out a mutual accommodation.

If you REALLY want to change the system make it a habit to CONSTRUCTIVELY engage with THOSE PEOPLE on the other side of the issue.

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#35

Post by hikehunter » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:50 am

Yes this election cycle is CRAP on both sides. Trump's crap does mot smell as bad as Hilley's pile ( that is getting bigger everyday).

The Supreme Court is the only reason I will vote Trump. There are some good choices on the list he put forward.

The wall at the border.....? ? ? We shall see, however, if Trump get the current laws enforced then things could calm down a bit.

The multi term bozos are running a little scared. Only part of America has woken up and not all have had their coffee to get more awake.

I do not think cool-aid has caffine.
There are wonders out there...now to go find them HFHS (Have Fun & Hike Safe)

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#36

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:08 am

GregD wrote:
There were more than two choices during the primaries.

It is indeed a prison of our own making. If we were better at resolving issues locally there would be fewer issues to resolve nationally AND we would have a better view on those characteristics most helpful for national leadership. Abortion. Guns. Same-sex marriage. Transgender rights. Religious practices. There are many issues on which you and I appear to disagree. But how much effort do we spend on trying to resolve these differences, trying to find a compromise that we both find satisfactory? Not so much, it seems to me. Far too much focus on "fighting for" our particular positions, far too little focus on working out a mutual accommodation.

If you REALLY want to change the system make it a habit to CONSTRUCTIVELY engage with THOSE PEOPLE on the other side of the issue.
Having 27 choices in two party primaries is having two choices.

A comment on my FB page goes to the heart of the matter and shows how futile "engaging the other side" is in solving the problem (that's because the choices the two sides give us suck so bad.)
What is astounding is how deaf to the graft and corruption so many members of the public appear to have become. Sure, the woman's negatives have climbed very high, but that won't stop many from voting for the most blatantly, defiantly corrupt person ever to seek the highest office in the land.

That is cultural decadence, a sign of serious decay, not societal health.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#37

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:10 am

Engaging with another side that tells me that they are voting for Hillary Clinton is like me engaging with someone who insists that if you hold the end of a live wire a certain way, it won't hurt so bad.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#38

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:27 am

I mean really,

People are voting for the most corrupt politician since Tammany Hall and the problem is that the "other side" isn't engaging with them?

You'd think they might start saying to themselves "Look who we're voting for. Maybe the other side has a point about our Party."
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#39

Post by GregD » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:55 pm

sarge wrote:Engaging with another side that tells me that they are voting for Hillary Clinton is like me engaging with someone who insists that if you hold the end of a live wire a certain way, it won't hurt so bad.
And in fact if you DO hold a live wire a certain way IN FACT it won't hurt at all. But I doubt that is what you meant. So what did you mean? That it is unpleasant to engage with someone with an opinion different from yours?

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#40

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:12 pm

Democrats, in very large numbers, are voting for the most corrupt individual to run for the office in over 100 years.

That's just not rational.

Trump is likely going to lose because a sufficient number of folks who regularly vote Republican won't vote for him because of his moral and ethical lapses.

Hillary is likely to win, because only a very few of the folks who regularly vote Democrat will not vote for her, even though they know that she has committed actual criminal acts (for which the Department of Justice controlled by appointees from the same Party has declined to prosecute), and is running a Foundation that amounts to nothing more than a slush fund for bribes coming from foreigh sources, rigged the primaries in her favor, tells bald faced lies, and is inextricably linked with the 1% that the same party tells us is the main problem with our country.

You just can't "engage" with that kind of irrationality.

Talk about people voting against their own self interest----
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#41

Post by GregD » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:20 pm

sarge wrote:I mean really,

People are voting for the most corrupt politician since Tammany Hall and the problem is that the "other side" isn't engaging with them?

You'd think they might start saying to themselves "Look who we're voting for. Maybe the other side has a point about our Party."
Says you. Where exactly is the corruption that is so exceptional?

This statement is quite ironic being leveled against Democrats given the current Republican candidate.

We can resolve our differences of opinion by the political process - my candidate vs. your candidate. You don't like either candidate. We could alternatively resolve our differences person-to-person. You apparently don't like talking to me. Maybe you would prefer rock/paper/scissors, best of 5.

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#42

Post by dirtwheels » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:36 pm

Al Capone never even dreamed of pulling off scams like Hillary. How could anyone trust her...EVER? Not only does she and Billy scam the rich but the scammed millions earmarked for Hati relief! She lies and not just about her illegal enterprise, she lies when it really doesn't matter! If we are to believe her she spent her early years without a name, because she was named after an explorer that was unknown until she was about 8, maybe that's what screwed her head up so bad?!!? Remember when the hapless military idiots responsible for her safety as 1st lady and let her land under sniper fire and told her and her little girl just run for it?

She should have entered the DNC convention to receive the nomination while the sound guy played a track of .50 cal and .308 range time.

Warms the cockles of my heart to know the taxpayers are supporting this modern day version of Bonnie & Clyde. I pray justice will yet prevail, but have real trouble believing that justice will happen in this lifetime.


sarge wrote:Democrats, in very large numbers, are voting for the most corrupt individual to run for the office in over 100 years.

That's just not rational.

Trump is likely going to lose because a sufficient number of folks who regularly vote Republican won't vote for him because of his moral and ethical lapses.

Hillary is likely to win, because only a very few of the folks who regularly vote Democrat will not vote for her, even though they know that she has committed actual criminal acts (for which the Department of Justice controlled by appointees from the same Party has declined to prosecute), and is running a Foundation that amounts to nothing more than a slush fund for bribes coming from foreigh sources, rigged the primaries in her favor, tells bald faced lies, and is inextricably linked with the 1% that the same party tells us is the main problem with our country.

You just can't "engage" with that kind of irrationality.

Talk about people voting against their own self interest----

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#43

Post by sarge » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:00 pm

GregD wrote:
sarge wrote:I mean really,

People are voting for the most corrupt politician since Tammany Hall and the problem is that the "other side" isn't engaging with them?

You'd think they might start saying to themselves "Look who we're voting for. Maybe the other side has a point about our Party."
Says you. Where exactly is the corruption that is so exceptional?

This statement is quite ironic being leveled against Democrats given the current Republican candidate.

We can resolve our differences of opinion by the political process - my candidate vs. your candidate. You don't like either candidate. We could alternatively resolve our differences person-to-person. You apparently don't like talking to me. Maybe you would prefer rock/paper/scissors, best of 5.
I like talking to you Greg.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
My You Tube Channel

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#44

Post by GregD » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:28 pm

sarge wrote:
GregD wrote:
sarge wrote:I mean really,

People are voting for the most corrupt politician since Tammany Hall and the problem is that the "other side" isn't engaging with them?

You'd think they might start saying to themselves "Look who we're voting for. Maybe the other side has a point about our Party."
Says you. Where exactly is the corruption that is so exceptional?

This statement is quite ironic being leveled against Democrats given the current Republican candidate.

We can resolve our differences of opinion by the political process - my candidate vs. your candidate. You don't like either candidate. We could alternatively resolve our differences person-to-person. You apparently don't like talking to me. Maybe you would prefer rock/paper/scissors, best of 5.
I like talking to you Greg.
Well if we could come to mutually agreeable compromises on social issues among ourselves then maybe our national elections could be more about what's best for the country and less about what is least worst.

I have nothing good to say about Donald Trump as a person or as a candidate. But during the primary, when he was standing next to Ted Cruz, I liked Trump better. Cruz seemed genuinely committed to positions on social issues that completely alienated me, whereas Trump was obviously insincere about pretty much everything except stroking his own ego.

During the primary I gave money to and voted for Bernie, the socialist, not because I agreed with so many of policy positions but simply because he was the only candidate that stated, plainly, that our system needs to work for everybody.
Last edited by GregD on Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gary Johnson, the Liberal

#45

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:33 pm

sarge wrote:
GregD wrote:
sarge wrote:I mean really,

People are voting for the most corrupt politician since Tammany Hall and the problem is that the "other side" isn't engaging with them?

You'd think they might start saying to themselves "Look who we're voting for. Maybe the other side has a point about our Party."
Says you. Where exactly is the corruption that is so exceptional?

This statement is quite ironic being leveled against Democrats given the current Republican candidate.

We can resolve our differences of opinion by the political process - my candidate vs. your candidate. You don't like either candidate. We could alternatively resolve our differences person-to-person. You apparently don't like talking to me. Maybe you would prefer rock/paper/scissors, best of 5.
I like talking to you Greg.
So do I, even if you do get my BP up some days, as I feel like I am debating a brick wall. Still, there is always the hope of getting you to see reason some day, so I am grateful for that opportunity! ;) ( I wonder if we might agree on a few things hammock or camping related? Then at least we would agree on something! ) BTW, I actually preferred Cruz.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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