Anybody else ???

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NCnative
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Anybody else ???

#1

Post by NCnative » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:58 pm

Just curious... Has anyone else gotten into discussions that became heated this past week concerning the gun control issue?? I am afraid that some relationships with lifelong friends have been damaged beyond repair.... from all sides.



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Re: Anybody else ???

#2

Post by SGT Rock » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:17 pm

No. I learned a long time ago that these discussions rarely educate anyway. So I avoid having them in the first place.
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Re: Anybody else ???

#3

Post by Baby Huey » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:21 pm

I have had some heated debates recently too. As far as losing friends over it, it hasn't really gotten to that point. Had an acquaintance on Facebook unfriend me, but no loss there. I guess the true questions lie in how good of friends were you that a difference of opinion could jeopardize the relationship AND more importantly is if you being steadfast in your belief is worth compromising said relationship. I know with certain people in my life that certain issues will lead only to drama, so I choose not to discuss those specific issues with those particular people. As with anything in life you have to ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze.
"Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place."
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Re: Anybody else ???

#4

Post by gmcpcs » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:21 am

Nah. I like to read others opinions, but I tend to keep my own to myself. FB, or any other online forums aren't the places to go about changing anyone's mind, they are already stuck. Online will bring out the worst in folks.

Now, having a discussion with someone standing next to a cholla cactus; if they disagree with you, just shove them into the cactus. That will definitely change their mind in a hurry. That is how it goes in the online community too, it seems.

Ephesians 4:15 comes to mind. Most people can't handle the truth, to quote a movie line. But the truth will win in the end.

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Re: Anybody else ???

#5

Post by Scuba » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:20 am

luckily my friends have mostly similar thoughts when it comes to guns/politics.
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Re: Anybody else ???

#6

Post by Foresight » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:23 pm

SGT Rock wrote:No. I learned a long time ago that these discussions rarely educate anyway. So I avoid having them in the first place.
This.....

Scuba wrote:luckily my friends have mostly similar thoughts when it comes to guns/politics.
And this.





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Re: Anybody else ???

#7

Post by sarge » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:06 pm

Foresight wrote:
SGT Rock wrote:No. I learned a long time ago that these discussions rarely educate anyway. So I avoid having them in the first place.
This.....

Scuba wrote:luckily my friends have mostly similar thoughts when it comes to guns/politics.
And this.





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The folks who start these conversations generally don't want to be educated anyway. They want to retort anything you say with a canned answer that they think will win the argument and show you out for a fool and an monster who doesn't care about people dying. When you give them a cogent, well thought out reply backed by facts that are easily demonstrable is when the firworks start.
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Re: Anybody else ???

#8

Post by SGT Rock » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:48 pm

Actually what I use are statistics from the FBI on active shooter situations. We practice for this quite a bit at work because we don't expect ISIS to really attack us tomorrow, but it is highly likely some anti-government nutbag will come by or someone attempting suicide by cop. Possibly even someone that just got sacked feeling it is time for some payback.

But, that said, here are some interesting things the FBI has found in active shooter situations. Forgive me if my numbers are a little off as I am doing this by memory:

Average active shooter length of time actually shooting: about 5:30 minutes.
Average time per kill: about 5-6 seconds between each shot. The incident may last about 5:30 but the shooter is not actively killing during the entire time.
75% of active shooters kill themselves. Usually when police arrive. Hence no more like happened at Columbine where they secure the outside of the building and wait for the SWAT team to arrive and come up with a plan. Now active shooter recommendation is to get the first two officers that arrive through the door ASAP.
Last thing to point out is when confronted by armed response, active shooter situations end something like 95% of the time at that instant. I cannot remember the numbers, but this doesn't mean when police arrive it stops, it also included cases where armed citizens intervened. Two I can think of specifically are one case where an armed citizen confronted a shooter at a mall. He didn't do it well and got shot, but he was the last one shot. And another you all have probably heard about where a teacher ran out to his car and got a gun and went back to confront the shooter who then gave up. The shooter was planning to go to another location to shoot more people, but when confronted he surrendered.

So as an armed professional I am truly scared by some of the idiots that carry guns in our country. But when it comes to this happening the statistics say that any idiot with a gun will probably cause the killing to stop from the nutjob with a gun. If you feel safe and confident in your ability to carry, please do. My kids lives just might be saved by you doing the right thing.

Thanks, and now I will come off my soapbox and go back to talking about backpacking and hammocks.
No Sniveling!

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Re: Anybody else ???

#9

Post by sarge » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:25 pm

One source has 12 incidents of armed guards or civilians stopping mass shooting attacks. The list does not include Floyd Lee Corkins' attempt at mass murder at the Family Research Council where he carried a satchel full of Chik Fil A sandwiches with the intent of sending a message by cramming them into the faces of his victims. It does mention a Mall shooting where a civilian pulled a weapon but this man wasn't wounded. I don't know if that means its the same incident you mentioned or if its a separate one.
You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me. ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Anybody else ???

#10

Post by SGT Rock » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:34 pm

Probably a separate one. The one I am thinking of the civilian saw the guy shooting and did a "drop your weapon" to an active shooter. Shooter turned on him and shot him next. Ever do a drill where the suspect is armed and not pointing a weapon at you? If you take the second to say "drop the weapon" it can be too late. Hence why you sometimes see a video of police shooting an armed suspect that isn't pointing it at anyone, they don't have to and if they do, it is probably going to be to late. If an officer gives you a chance to put your weapon down, do it immediately.

For the record, if someone is actively killing other people, you don't have to do that. Just shoot the guy.
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Re: Anybody else ???

#11

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:47 pm

Can you imagine such a response here in the USA?
I remember when in Jerusalem, it was common to be in line at a coffee shop and some 18 year old kid in line would have an M16 slung over their shoulder. No one was ever worried about those armed people(soldiers). We checked into one hotel at Tiberius on the Sea of Galilee and the desk clerk was packing heat NOT concealed. How different it is over there where people don’t worry about respectable citizens being armed, than it is here in the USA. :
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Re: Anybody else ???

#12

Post by Scott » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:39 am

My discussions on gun control turn to alcohol, partly because it catches people sideways and the canned replies have to be re-thought. Basically, until we outlaw alcohol and cars, don't talk to me about gun deaths. Last I checked, and I don't have current numbers, but alcohol and guns caused almost equal harm from injury and loss of life. I am MUCH more concerned with a drunk driver coming over the yellow line than an active shooter...

But no, I don't spend much time arguing guns. Kinda like abortion, minds are made up long before the topic comes up in discussion.

An interesting conversation the other day with a co-worker. (not trying to hijack the thread)

Her (after receiving a frustrating text from her 13 year old): Can you kill your kids and get away with it?
Me: only before they are born
Her: uh, well, hmm. not what I meant. (she is VERY liberal)
end of conversation.

That is generally how I get my position across. State it (whether guns, religion, whatever) in brief, real terms, with no intention of persuasion. Just stating my position and let them figure it out from there.
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Re: Anybody else ???

#13

Post by rhjanes » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:52 am

^^^ classic!

My dad was career USAF and his first year or so (back during Korea) was spent as a First Lt, in charge of guarding the bombers at a base. So he has extensive fire arm training (I also took a lot of training in college). Anyway, he stressed fire arm safety, but also says stuff like "TV and Movies is total BS, yet our population seems to think it is real! You only point ANY firearm AT a person or something you INTEND to SHOOT and probably kill. Period. I don't care it you THINK it is unloaded. There is no "wing them" or "they should have shot him in the leg!!" (yeah, the guy rapeing a woman at gun point, high as a kite on some drug....sure...."wing" him).
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Re: Anybody else ???

#14

Post by ipokebadgers » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:53 am

As with others here, most of my friends have the same mindset as I. I try not to debate strangers and acquaintances and I tend to believe the old adage "Arguing with stupid people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon will knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it won".

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Re: Anybody else ???

#15

Post by UncleMJM » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:39 am

ipokebadgers wrote:As with others here, most of my friends have the same mindset as I. I try not to debate strangers and acquaintances and I tend to believe the old adage "Arguing with stupid people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon will knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it won".
My sentiments as well. Thanks for adding to my arsenal of phrases. :lol:

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