How did Jermiah know these things would happen to his people?

Forum rules
Here, you can discuss your Faith, post inspirational and Theological memes and quotations, ask questions of a Religious and spritutal nature, and discuss how your Religious Tradition views Life and the Outdoors. This forum is completely Non-Denominational and respects all Faith Traditions, regardless of Diety. If you don't want to see God, Religion, and Theology being discussed, please respect the rights of the people here to do so in peace. We respect that right, that's why this forum was created. Discussion should always be respectful of the people here and thier beliefs. This Forum was not created for the purposes of you talking people out of thier Faith or to insult their intelligence. We respect your right to do so, but will not allow that kind of discussion here.
Post Reply
User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

How did Jermiah know these things would happen to his people?

#1

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:53 pm

800 years AFTER Moses(but still 2600 years ago, about 600 years before Christ), Jeremiah(as well as Daniel and Ezekiel) were the prophets on the scene recording the beginning of the fulfillment of the curses section of “the blessings and the curses” spelled out by Moses in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, discussed in a previous/current thread. As Jeremiah(and the others) observed these things starting to take place, they had plenty to say about what the future would hold for the people of Israel. Both the near future and the faraway future. Personally I don't know anyone who can get even the near future correct. Sometimes even with science, the weathermen often have a good bit of difficulty with anything more than a few days, and occasionally are very wrong even a few days out LOL!

So now, at the time of Jeremiah and several other prophets, the world wide dispersion or exile of the people of Israel was about to begin. Although, just as promised by Jeremiah and other scripture, this dispersion would have two segments, the first exile(70 years) which would not be to a land all that far away nor to a land they did not know about(but would also include the loss of sovereignty until both segments were completed), and a later final dispersion over the face of the earth. Obviously, though the entire books are fascinating with all of the things they reveal, I can only cover a small part of it here. My posts are already too long, and most people are probably not going to read them, all the more so if they are way long. So I'm just going to cover a few items from Jeremiah, and if somebody wants to discuss other parts of the book or books they can let me know and we will do so. But for now I must avoid reprinting the entire Bible.

First, a very clear confirmation of the hatred the Jews would experience from the rest of the world as promised in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. But again I ask: who in the world writes this way about themselves and their people? Especially considering that the accusation is often made that the scriptures were written well after the Babylonian exile, by Jews who desired to create a history for themselves which claimed that God had chosen them above the other nations to be His people and live in His land. But all of these books/prophets were full of God's Words spelling out the many ways in which they had sinned, and the details about how He was going to punish them by (at least temporarily) kicking them out of this land, though they would remain His people. Who writes that way when trying to create a fable about how great they are and why they are superior to the other nations? Or who would try and establish himself as a prophet of God by telling his fellow Jews all of these very unpopular things, which the king and people would hate them for, and thus often beat, jail or kill them? This continued with Jesus, BTW, who had many discouraging things to say to His brothers the Jews about their future.

OK, to the confirmation(one of many in the Bible) of the coming hatred and scorn for the Jewish people:
“Jeremiah 29:This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon……..15 You may say, “The Lord has raised up prophets for us in Babylon,” 16 but this is what the Lord says about the king who sits on David’s throne and all the people who remain in this city, your fellow citizens who did not go with you into exile— 17 yes, this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will send the sword, famine and plague against them and I will make them like figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten. 18 I will pursue them with the sword, famine and plague and will make them abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth, a curse and an object of horror, of scorn and reproach, among all the nations where I drive them. 19 For they have not listened to my words,” declares the Lord, “words that I sent to them again and again by my servants the prophets. And you exiles have not listened either,” declares the Lord……”

Now, has there ever been a people more hated by more nations than the Jews were, after they no longer lived in their promised land, but instead lived among the gentile nations? Though there are arising deniers 70 years after the fact, we all know about the pure and intense hatred that arose in Nazi Germany for the Jews, and the desire of that government to exterminate every last Jewish man, woman and child in Germany and in every nation they occupied. And how they almost succeeded, with the vast slaughter that took place in not just Germany, but in Poland, Russia and most of Europe. The thing is, Hitler was not alone in his hatred for them, but he had plenty of support in most of the nations he occupied, with some notable exceptions. This support made it much easier for him to carry out his extermination. And this goes way back, to the hatred of the Romans for the Jews at the time of Christ, and their destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.(You can see the arch built to celebrate this event right next to the Coliseum in Rome to this day, Titus's arch). England expelled all of their Jews in the year 1290AD, and there were no Jews in England for 400 years. This was followed by Spain in 1492, all Jews expelled on penalty of death. Whenever these things happened, there would be massive loss of life as they try to find another country that would take them in, and since they were not usually allowed to take anything valuable with them. This hatred can be witnessed today, even here in the USA, by looking at the comment section of any web article having anything to do with Israel or Jews. These will quickly be flooded by hateful comments. And of course, it is not hard to hear it among actual comments in real life, especially from older folks who are not quite so PC, even here in this country, the only friend Israel has ever had.

So, again I ask: how could Jeremiah possibly have known that his people, his fellow Jews and Israelites, were going to be scattered over the face of the earth where they would be intensely hated? At the time he did this, according to the Bible, there were plenty of false prophets telling the people just the opposite of these things, telling them things that made them popular with the king and the people. All the rest(good grief, I just found an autocorrect saying restaurant rather than rest!) obviously quite wrong, which is what one would normally expect with somebody telling the future. But all of the Bible prophets were pretty much consistent over a 1500 year period, even if they were persecuted for saying so, but they were also all correct. So how did old Jeremiah(and the rest) pull this off? And how did these books having so much bad news for them and saying so much about their sin become their Holy Books?

But much as Moses wrote 800 years previously, Jeremiah also gave them hope for the future, after they had been disciplined:
Jeremiah 32:….33 They turned their backs to me and not their faces; though I taught them again and again, they would not listen or respond to discipline. 34 They set up their vile images in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. 35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
36 “You are saying about this city, ‘By the sword, famine and plague it will be given into the hands of the king of Babylon’; but this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. 38 They will be my people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. 41 I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.
42 “This is what the Lord says: As I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will give them all the prosperity I have promised them. 43 Once more fields will be bought in this land of which you say, ‘It is a desolate waste, without people or animals, for it has been given into the hands of the Babylonians.’ 44 Fields will be bought for silver, and deeds will be signed, sealed and witnessed in the territory of Benjamin, in the villages around Jerusalem, in the towns of Judah and in the towns of the hill country, of the western foothills and of the Negev, because I will restore their fortunes, declares the Lord.”

For something on the side, check out how Mark Twain described the desolate desert of Israel in the late 1800s in "Innocents Abroad"! And how he said (paraphrase) could it be any different regarding a land that God has cursed? But now, Israel is a major exporter of fruits and vegetables to the rest of the world. More later on Jeremiah.
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.


Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: How did Jermiah know these things would happen to his people?

#2

Post by BillyBob66 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:06 pm

(Edit to remove accidentally copied material from above post)
Pull up a world map and find Jerusalem. Draw a line straight north and you will hit about the furthest north major city from Jerusalem, Moscow, along with St.Petersberg just slightly further north, Kiev and Berlin somewhat southwest. Equally far north(but somewhat northwest) is Amsterdam, of Diary of Ann Frank and also Corrie Ten Boom fame(The Hiding Place) fame, the Christian lady/family that were sent to concentration camps for hiding Jews from Nazis.
So Russia, Poland, Germany, and the other Nazi occupied countries, the lands of the Holocaust, are the populated lands that are to the far north of Israel. These Holocaust survivors and immigrants to Israel made up the largest part of the massive Jewish population increase that came into what would soon become the sovereign nation of Israel in the years right after WW2. They have come from all over the world(as scripture also confirms would happen), but the biggest single population shift came from the lands of the Holocaust to the north.
So, 2600 years ago, before the Jews had really been scattered anywhere other than to the east ( Babylon and Assyria), Jeremiah wrote:
Jeremiah 3:12 Go, proclaim this message toward the north:
“‘Return, faithless Israel,’ declares the Lord,
    ‘I will frown on you no longer,
for I am faithful,’ declares the Lord,
    ‘I will not be angry forever.""

And even more impressively, considering that at the time of Jeremiah, there was one major historical event that was associated with their Passover festival: the fact that God had rescued them from the land of Egypt(south) and brought them through the wilderness to give them their promised land, which God had chased the child sacrificing pagans out of. But look what Jeremiah says will be said in the future
Jeremiah16:14 “However, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when it will no longer be said, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 15 but it will be said, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their ancestors.
And repeated:
Jeremiah 23:7 “So then, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8 but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”
Also:
Jeremiah 31:8See, I will bring them from the land of the north and gather them from the ends of the earth. Among them will be the blind and the lame, expectant mothers and women in labor; a great throng will return.

So somehow Jeremiah knew that a day would come in the future when an even greater rescue would occur, and it would be more on the minds of the people than the rescue from Egypt: the rescue from the lands of the Holocaust. They would be rescued primarily from the north, at least at first and the north was emphasized. And this event would loom even larger in their minds(in the future) than Egypt. I think that is an accurate description of the mind set of the average, usually secular, modern Israeli Jew. I think the fact that their parents survived the Holocaust and managed to return to their ancient homeland and become a nation again is probably more important to them than is the story- which not all of them believe- of being brought out of Egypt. Somehow Jeremiah knew this. He not only knew they would return, but he emphasized the north.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: How did Jermiah know these things would happen to his people?

#3

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:32 am

I think I forgot to point out this about the above quoted Jer 31:8. Not only did Jeremiah emphasize, in several different verses, the north when pointing out where the Jews would return to their land from, in 31:8 quoted previously he emphasized that it would be a great number that would come from the north. That was a pretty darn good guess! How is it there are so many good guesses by these ancient writers? LOL! Jeremiah said they would be brought from all over the world but emphasized that a great number( a great throng) would come from the north country and the remote parts of the earth. The north relative to Israel, the farthest north you can get where there are significant populations of anyone, especially in 1945, which would also count as remote parts of the earth relative to Israel, are the lands of the holocaust, where so many survivors immigrated from after 1945:

Jeremiah 31:8 (NASB)"“Behold, I am bringing them from the north country, And I will gather them from the remote parts of the earth,
Among them the blind and the lame,The woman with child and she who is in labor with child, together; A great company, they will return here (NIV)See, I will bring them from the land of the north, and gather them from the ends of the earth. Among them will be the blind and the lame, expectant mothers and women in labor; a great throng will return........................(King James translation from the 1600s)"8 ... a great company shall return thither."" And, just for fun, the always interesting The Message translation:
"8 “Watch what comes next:“I’ll bring my people back from the north country And gather them up from the ends of the earth,
gather those who’ve gone blind And those who are lame and limping, gather pregnant women,
Even the mothers whose birth pangs have started,
bring them all back, a huge crowd!"



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... opulation/
Off Topic
It’s been seven decades since the end of the Holocaust, an event that decimated the Jewish population in Europe. In the years since then, the number of European Jews has continued to decline for a variety of reasons. And now, concerns over renewed anti-Semitism on the continent have prompted Jewish leaders to talk of a new “exodus” from the region.

There are still more than a million Jews living in Europe, according to 2010 Pew Research Center estimates. But that number has dropped significantly over the last several decades – most dramatically in Eastern Europe and the countries that make up the former Soviet Union, according to historical research by Sergio DellaPergola of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

In 1939, there were 16.6 million Jews worldwide, and a majority of them – 9.5 million, or 57% – lived in Europe, according to DellaPergola’s estimates. By the end of World War II, in 1945, the Jewish population of Europe had shrunk to 3.8 million, or 35% of the world’s 11 million Jews. About 6 million European Jews were killed during the Holocaust, according to common estimates.............In Eastern Europe, a once large and vibrant Jewish population has nearly disappeared. DellaPergola estimates that there were 3.4 million Jews in the European portions of the Soviet Union as of 1939. Many were killed in the Holocaust, and others moved to Israel or elsewhere.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

User avatar
BillyBob66
Reactions:
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:43 am
Location: Tupelo, MS
Hammock: Claytor/JRB/HH/SB
Tarp: JRB 11X10
Suspension: CinchBuckle/WS/TriG
Insulation: HHSS,P.Pod,MWUQ,Yeti

Re: How did Jermiah know these things would happen to his people?

#4

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:05 am

Remember we now- since 1947- have copies or partial copies of the Old Testament, some dated by the scholars/archaeologists to several hundred years before Christ. What we have from over 2000 years ago well matches our modern translations, and the previously oldest from 900 years ago. So the scriptures have been faithfully copied and/or translated through the millennia. So how is it that all of these different prophets, writing from different eras over a 1500 year period, managed to get so much right again and again? Shouldn't these ancient guys rather have been almost always wrong, only rarely- if ever- managing to guess right? Whether regarding commands that would finally be verified as the healthy way to live over 3000 years later, or with extreme accuracy telling the future of the Israelites and Jews, even while consistently telling them something they did not want to hear and often would react violently to, just as people sometimes do today? And that last part did not change right up through the New Testament:

Jesus' Words: Matthew 23:"29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”".........................................
Luke 21:"23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."................
Paul in Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.....................11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious......................
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles,.......................25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers.............so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.............................."

He has kept, or will keep, every promise in His Word! As He has done in the past, He will do in the future!
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

Post Reply

Return to “God”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest