Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

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Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#1

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:54 am

For any who might be interested: Moses, as well as all the other Biblical prophets, have this habit of proclaiming the future and getting repeatedly lucky. They have no way of knowing the future, other than they all claim that God decided to tell them, and ordered them to tell the people. The reason for this was so that when they observed these things happening, they would know that He was The Lord. Or, as the Lord says in Isaiah 46:8 “Remember this, and be assured;
Recall it to mind, you transgressors.
9 “Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
 And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man of My purpose from a far country.
Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass.
I have planned it, surely I will do it.”

Well OK, there is a pretty bold claim! All of the prophets are amazing, but I will stick with Moses for now since I have already been writing about how he wrote about things he could not have possibly known about the universe, as well as many of the Laws he gave Israel which match up quite well with knowledge that was unknown until the era of modern medicine, the last 100-200 years. But what about his prophecies re: his people, his fellow Israelites/Jews? Next post: the history of the Jews/Israelites. Following that, what did Moses say God told him about what this history would be, history told in advance?
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#2

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:55 am

First, what is the actual history of the Jewish people? Well all we have is the Bible for the history from about 1800 BC until the time of the Babylonians about 600BC, then Persians and Greeks and finally Romans about the times of Christ. Starting with the babylonians and these other nations who occupied the land of Israel, we have some pretty good history, but before that it is mostly the Bible only. And according to that Bible:
1: God called/chose Abraham about 1800-2000 BC, and made a covenant with him, promising him that the land of Israel would always belong to his descendants, as an everlasting possession, even if He temporarily removed them from His land as a discipline or punishment. But first, his descendants would be mistreated and even become slaves in a foreign land for 400 years, and then He would bring them back and give them the land.
2: They became slaves in Egypt and were brought out and given the land some 400 years later. Actually, 430 years to the day, as they were not mistreated when they first migrated to Egypt.
3: God spelled out to them (in Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28 and other books) as they entered the land that if they obeyed His laws He would bless them endlessly, but if they did not obey he would treat them like the child sacrificing pagans he drove out to give them the land: IOW, He would chase them out of their land into the lands of their enemies where they would be in fear for their lives and hated wherever they went. However, since He had made the covenant with Abraham/Isaac and Jacob, He would NOT allow them to be destroyed completely in the lands where He would send them.
5: About 800 years later, after disciplining them and giving them multiple chances, their punishment began when Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian conquered Israel, ending their sovereign nation for 2600 years. Solomon's Temple was burned in 586BC ( by now we have history other than from the Bible only for those who require it), Jerusalem was destroyed, and the survivors were exiled to Babylon.
6: 70 years later, just as prophesied by Jeremiah, they were allowed to return so that the prophecies re: the birth of Messiah could be fulfilled. But they were never again a sovereign nation, always being under the heel of 1st the Babylonians(modern day Iraq), then the Persians(name changed to Iran 1935), then the Macedonians/Greeks(they were occupied by Alexander the Great), and finally the Romans around the time of Christ. One foreign ruler after another right up to 1948.
7: 40 years after their rejection of their Messiah (just as prophesied by Daniel and Isaiah), their world wide dispersal continued in earnest, as the Temple Jesus worshiped in and Jerusalem were burned and leveled to the ground, fulfilling Jesus’ prophecy from Matthew 24, millions of the Jews were killed, and the survivors were sold into slavery and scattered over the face of the earth.
8: For the next 1900 years, they lived among the various gentile nations, often hated and in fear of their lives, until 3 years after the Holocaust they returned, and the nation of Israel was reborn in it’s original homeland, something that has never happened with any other nation on earth, never in known history.

That is the history of the nation of Israel in a nut shell, over a 3900 year period, with the history from about 600 years before Christ well confirmed by secular history. But what did Moses, and the other prophets, have to say about this hundreds and even thousands of years before it happened? If interested, see the next post!
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#3

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:59 am

Roughly 3400 years ago, the children of Israel had been freed(according to Moses) from slavery in Egypt and brought safely across the wilderness to arrive at their promised land. Before they entered in, Moses told them them (in chapters of 2 books known as “the blessings and the curses”) about the incredible blessings that God would give them if they obeyed His Law, but also warned them about the curses that would come upon them if the insisted on acting like the pagans God was chasing out for them, by worshiping other so called gods and by sacrificing their children to them. Which they did.

Leviticus 26:14 ‘But if you do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments, 15 if, instead, you reject My statutes, and if your soul abhors My ordinances so as not to carry out all My commandments, and so break My covenant, 16 I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror………….17 I will set My face against you so that you will be struck down before your enemies; and those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee when no one is pursuing you. 18 If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 I will also break down your pride of power; I will also make your sky like iron and your earth like bronze.(Bill says: take away the rain)……….29 Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat. 30 I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay waste your cities as well and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your soothing aromas. 32 I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it. 33 You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste…………….38 But you will perish among the nations, and your enemies’ land will consume you. 39 So those of you who may be left will rot away because of their iniquity in the lands of your enemies; and also because of the iniquities of their forefathers they will rot away with them…………….
41 I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies—or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord.’”
46 These are the statutes and ordinances and laws which the Lord established between Himself and the sons of Israel through Moses at Mount Sinai.. “ See next post for more details God gave in Deuteronomy 28.
Last edited by BillyBob66 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#4

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:07 am

BTW, who does this? Who, while trying to make up a story about their God who has chosen them above all nations to work out His will on earth and to bring the Savior of both Israel and the entire world, speaks so much of the sin of this chosen people and how one day God will destroy that nation? Are there any other example of such writings by the leader of a nation in history? Even Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land due to his sin. Who writes this way about their heroes of the faith, or any other types of heroes? Any way, back to Deuteronomy 28 and others:
Deuteronomy 28: “ “Now it shall be, if you diligently obey the Lord your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and overtake you if you obey the Lord your God:………………
15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:………….
23 The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you, iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust;…………………..34 You shall be driven mad by the sight of what you see…………..36 The Lord will bring you and your king, whom you set over you, to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 You shall become a horror, a proverb, and a taunt among all the people where the Lord drives you…………………….
45 “So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the Lord your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 They shall become a sign and a wonder on you and your descendants forever.
47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and a glad heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in the lack of all things; and He will put an iron yoke on your neck until He has destroyed you.
49 “The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you shall not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance who will have no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young. (Bill says Rome, whose language they did not understand and who marched with icons of eagles in front of them, their emperor with a giant eagle statue at his throne, but just my guess)….52 It shall besiege you in all your towns until your high and fortified walls in which you trusted come down throughout your land, and it shall besiege you in all your towns throughout your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 Then you shall eat the offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, …..57…during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will oppress you in your towns.(Bill says historian Josephus recorded women eating their children during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD).
63 It shall come about that as the Lord delighted over you to prosper you, and multiply you, so the Lord will delight over you to make you perish and destroy you; and you will be torn from the land where you are entering to possess it. 64 Moreover, the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth;…………65 Among those nations you shall find no rest, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul. 66 So your life shall hang in doubt before you; and you will be in dread night and day, and shall have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Would that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Would that it were morning!’ because of the dread of your heart which you dread, and for the sight of your eyes which you will see. 68 The Lord will bring you back to Egypt in ships, by the way about which I spoke to you, ‘You will never see it again!’ And there you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”(history records that there were so many Jewish slaves for sale after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD that the slave markets were depressed)
Deut29:22 “Now the generation to come, your sons who rise up after you and the foreigner who comes from a distant land, when they see the plagues of the land and the diseases with which the Lord has afflicted it, will say, 23 ‘All its land is brimstone and salt, a burning waste, unsown and unproductive, and no grass grows in it, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the Lord overthrew in His anger and in His wrath.’ 24 All the nations will say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land? Why this great outburst of anger?’ 25 Then men will say, ‘Because they forsook the covenant of the Lord, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt. 26 They went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they have not known and whom He had not allotted to them. 27 Therefore, the anger of the Lord burned against that land, to bring upon it every curse which is written in this book; 28 and the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger and in fury and in great wrath, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.’
29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 30:1“So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers………………………………..
11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach……..14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.””.
See also Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel among others.

So, what did this say would happen to Israel if they rejected the Lord God? And what happened to them, from the destruction of Jerusalem first in 586BC by Nebuchadnezzar and then again right after Christ in 70AD? But for the grand finale, God promised them that, Holocaust and final solution to the Jewish problem or not, no matter who wanted to exterminate them, that He would not allow them to be destroyed completely and in fact, when their punishment was complete, He would gather them up, bring them back, and give them the land of Israel, of their fathers, again. And in May 1948, right after the Holocaust, Israel indeed became a nation again in the land of their fathers. As far as I know, the only time in world history such a thing has happened. It just happened to take place with the one nation God promised He would restore after their punishment, after He had scattered them to the farthest nations of the earth, where they would be hated and in fear for their lives.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#5

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:03 pm

OK, so far, I am the only one interested in this subject, so I will just have to keep replying to myself, LOL! Although I realize, it is a lengthy read, not unlike reading the Bible.

A summary of Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, known as the blessings and the curses(we are just dealing with the curses):
A: What did Moses say would happen- that God would do to- to his fellow Israelites if they abandoned the Lord God who brought them out of slavery, safely across the wilderness, to their promised land? What curses would He bring upon them if they started acting just like the pagans which were driven out ahead of them?
1: After much discipline of plagues, failed crops and withholding the rain, and temporary military defeats and occupation, if they still had not repented, He would bring other nations against them and kick them out of His land just as He ran the pagans out in order to give the land to them,
2: He would draw His "sword" and pursue them as He scattered them across the face of the globe, into the Gentile nations.
3: In these nations they would be hated, even a thing of horror and revulsion in some of them, and they would often be in fear for their lives, and the things they would see would drive them mad.(also see other prophets for much info on how much they would be hated). The land's of their enemies would "devour" them.
4: In spite of all of this, because of the promises God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob- Hid everlasting covenant with them- He would not allow them to be destroyed completely in the nations where He would scatter them. But rather, one day their punishment would be complete, and He would gather them up, even from the furthest nation under the heavens, bring them back, and give them the land of Israel again. Which would happen, according to the other prophets, in the Last Days.
B: What actually happened to the Israelites/Jews?
See 1 through 4 above.
Summary complete.
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#6

Post by BillyBob66 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:56 pm

With 189 views and not one comment, is there really not a soul interested in this subject? I would have at least thought there would be 1 person to show me how wrong I am.

Come on guys, I am claiming Moses wrote history in advance, the specific history of a specific people, his own people, including a future of hard disciplines, which would include being kicked out of the land that God gave them as an everlasting possession, to be followed by a future return and total restoration to the land of their fathers. And there is a ton to say about this subject from all of the other prophets writing over a 1400+ year period, it is the main- or A main- subject they prophesied about. But maybe there is no need to go there if no one has any thoughts about Moses' prophecies?

Or, maybe everyone is just thinking, " Hey, obviously he is correct, so what else is there to say?"?
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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#7

Post by KINGLONESTAR » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:54 am

What exactly are you asking? I read the whole thing except for skimming a couple of the passages and I'm not sure.


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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

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Post by iconicflux » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:53 am

Have you ever seen a preacher on a soap box that was considered sane and actively listened to?


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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

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Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:26 pm

KINGLONESTAR wrote:What exactly are you asking? I read the whole thing except for skimming a couple of the passages and I'm not sure.


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A comment! YAY! Thanks for your comment, Kinglonestar!

Well, I don't suppose I asked anything, other than maybe in the general sense of expecting some comments either agreeing or disagreeing with my point.

In case there is any confusion about what my point was, it was that Moses clearly stated the future course of Jewish world history, including their being kicked out(due to their rejection of their God) of the land God was giving them. And that they would be scattered to the farthest nations of the Earth. And that in those nations they would be loathed and in constant fear for there lives(as in Holocaust for example). But once their punishment was complete, God would gather the survivors from these far away nations, bring them back and give them the land of Israel again. As in Israel becoming a sovereign nation once again in 1948, for the first time in 2600 years. Something that has never happened before with any ancient, extinct nation. I say Moses foretold all of this, as did the other prophets. Something he would be incapable of doing without divine help. IMO.
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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#10

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:40 pm

iconicflux wrote:Have you ever seen a preacher on a soap box that was considered sane and actively listened to?


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Well, Icon, I suppose not. And I suppose I am that preacher on a soapbox considered insane. But I suppose that I could wish that those considering me insane due to what I have written, show all of us why. Maybe by showing how what Mose wrote about Israel's future was not accurate. Or a common thing is to try to claim any one could have written this and these things could have, and probably did, happen to many other nations. But I would hope they would provide me both with the writings(prophecies) and the historical fulfillment. Actually, good luck on any one finding a nation which has been so scattered through the world while keeping their identity, been so hated and persecuted in those nations, and has finally been restored to the land of their fathers. Even if no one wrote down in advance that ut was going to happen. I would be interested in seeing examples of such. But in this case someone did write it down, and not just Moses. All the other prophets over the following 1400 years, even a bit of it in the New Testament. Word's of the Prophet ( and so much more ) and Jew Jesus to His fellow Jews:
"Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled..." According to Jesus, Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. But UNTIL is not forever.

Thanks for your comment!
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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#11

Post by KINGLONESTAR » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:10 pm

I certainly respect your thoughts and your discussion points. And don't go thinking that I am necessarily disagreeing with you or anything like that. I don't think I am or am not at this point.

As with any discussion regarding historical happenings, I think it is important to acknowledge that we have the hindsight on our side. I don't think your supposition that Moses' prophesies subsequently came to pass are necessarily mutually exclusive of my opinion that we have a tendency to view history thru the prism of our desire to have history match the prophecy. What I mean by that is we can look at something that happened in 18hundred-whenever and say, "that is exactly what Nostradamus (or Moses, or Isaiah) SAID would happen!"

I repeat, I am NOT saying that Moses' prophecies have not come true. BUT, I'm also saying that I think it is possible, ne, likely even, that we have a tendency to look at historical events and say that they were foretold. Can't it be just as likely that the explanation we give for those historical events is framed by the fact that we WANT the prophecies to be true?

That is a rambling mess of thought, I know. It makes a lot more sense in my head than it probably does in writing.

In simple terms, it's the whole 'chicken, or egg' question. It's circular in fashion. There is no right or wrong answer. There is no way to prove causality. Either way, my faith remains intact that Jesus Christ walked this earth as Man.


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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#12

Post by BillyBob66 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:20 pm

KINGLONESTAR wrote:I certainly respect your thoughts and your discussion points. And don't go thinking that I am necessarily disagreeing with you or anything like that. I don't think I am or am not at this point.

As with any discussion regarding historical happenings, I think it is important to acknowledge that we have the hindsight on our side. I don't think your supposition that Moses' prophesies subsequently came to pass are necessarily mutually exclusive of my opinion that we have a tendency to view history thru the prism of our desire to have history match the prophecy. What I mean by that is we can look at something that happened in 18hundred-whenever and say, "that is exactly what Nostradamus (or Moses, or Isaiah) SAID would happen!"

I repeat, I am NOT saying that Moses' prophecies have not come true. BUT, I'm also saying that I think it is possible, ne, likely even, that we have a tendency to look at historical events and say that they were foretold. Can't it be just as likely that the explanation we give for those historical events is framed by the fact that we WANT the prophecies to be true?

That is a rambling mess of thought, I know. It makes a lot more sense in my head than it probably does in writing.

In simple terms, it's the whole 'chicken, or egg' question. It's circular in fashion. There is no right or wrong answer. There is no way to prove causality. Either way, my faith remains intact that Jesus Christ walked this earth as Man.


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Hey King,
No problem with disagreeing with me ( if you decide that you do indeed disagree), I'm used to getting a lot of that, on this forum and elsewhere. We all have differing opinions and ways of looking at things.

I think you are dead on, we do have " hindsight on our side". I actually view that as an advantage in this case. What did he say, and what later happened? Can only be known with hindsight, I suppose. And I agree that we, or I, have a tendency to view history thru the prism of our desire to have history match the prophecy. There is that tendency.

But, having read Nostradamus and other SO CALLED prophets back in the 80s, IMHO, there simply is no comparison. Fist of all, all more modern ( or ancient for that matter) non-Biblical prophets are simply wrong pretty much all of the time. Sure, they might occasionally get lucky about some fairly short term thing, just by wild guessing, but if you look at their over all record, they will guess right 1 out of 10 or a hundred or zero out of a hundred. As you probably know, God said that was a sure sign of a false prophet, a sign that He did not send them, if what they said did not come to pass. But the main thing is what folks often wrongly accuse me of- or actually accuse Moses and the rest of: vague general stuff that could be interpreted as being fulfilled by all manner of things that might happen. Nostradamus' most famous so called prediction was supposedly about Hitler. But I remember reading his stuff and it said vague stuff about some one called Hister, not Hitler. Naturally, some who want to believe this stuff claim that Nos. was just playing word games to protect himself from the Catholic church, and he disguised the word Hitler with Hister. Good grief, Nos. was 400 years before Hitler, why would he need to hide the word Hitler from the RCC?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hister "Hister (genitive Histri) is the Latin name for the Danube (especially its lower course), or for the people living along its banks.

It also appears as Ister, equivalent to the Ancient Greek ᾽´Ιστρος, which also meant the Danube or the region around its mouth. The Ancient Greek colony of Histria in today's Romania was named using this form of the river's name.

The term may be related to the name of the region Istria in what is now northwestern Croatia, where a tribe called the Histri lived in ancient times. Some once thought that the local freshwater streams in Istria derived from a (non-existent) southward branch of the Danube.

In modern English the term is most commonly encountered in its use by Nostradamus, especially in a phrase at quatrain II.24 commonly translated "most of the battle (or armies) will be against Hister":

Bestes farouches de faim fluves tranner:
Plus part du camp encontre Hister sera,
En caige de fer le grand fera treisner,
Quand Rin enfant Germain observera.

[Nostradamus, Les Propheties, first printing 1555][1]

or, in English:

Beasts wild with hunger shall cross the rivers:
Most of the fighting shall be close by the Hister [Danube],
It shall result in the great one being dragged in an iron cage,
While the German shall be watching over the infant Rhine.

This is often interpreted to be a prediction of the war against Adolf Hitler's Nazi state in the twentieth century. However, none of the reputable sources listed support this view. In fact all of them point out that the name 'Hister' (as Nostradamus himself explains in his Almanac for 1554[2]) in fact refers in his writings to the Danube, being mentioned (as elsewhere[3]) alongside 'R[h]in' (Rhine) -- two rivers that formed the north-eastern frontier of the ancient Roman Empire."

Now, honestly, no matter how badly I wanted to make that be a prophecy of Adolph Hitler in WW2, I can't do it. Can you? I really have no idea what that might even mean, do you? It sounds like there will be, at some point in the future from Nostra., some fighting around the Danube and Rhine. Well considering there had probably already been plenty of that in history before 1500, I'm thinking I could do just as good by predicting the same for that area or several other areas. A great one dragged in an iron cage? Well, even though that is not very specific, I'm still not sure that has been fulfilled in history. OTOH, I would not be surprised to find that any number of people have been dragged in iron cages in various places over the centuries.

Now compare that to the specificity of Moses, and all the other prophets. In fact, if any interest is shown( or maybe even if not) I will later show that even fairly precise dates far into the future are set, for the future arrival and execution of Jesus, and the rebirth of national Israel in 1948. Again at least IMO, it is not a matter of me wanting it to mean something, it is a matter of what it very plainly says and what has actually happened.

Here is a prophecy that would equal typical Bible prophecy, if we had it. Let's say that when the Cherokee Indians arrived to occupy what we now call state of Georgia, that they also had written language, and their leader who brought them there wrote : If you do not obey the Laws your God has given you, and if you act like the people your God is driving out ahead of you, He will bring a people against you from far away, whose language you do not know and who worship other gods. They will completely destroy your land, burn your temple and kill most of your people. The survivors who remain your God will kick out of Georgia, and send them (first as slaves) to the farthest away nations on earth, where the people of those lands will hate them intensely and even kill them, where they will become a thing of horror and repulsion in the lands of their enemies. However, because of the promises your God made to the ancestors of the Cherokees regarding their descendants and their land, He WILL NOT allow them to be destroyed completely in the lands of their enemies, thus breaking His word(covenant). But instead, when their punishment/discipline is complete, He will gather them up, bring them back to the land of their fathers, and give them the land of Georgia again, where they will be more prosperous than their ancestors.

That is the equivalent of what Moses and the other prophets- even including Jesus - wrote about the Israelites. It is all there in black and white. Words that can be applied to no one but the Israelites/Jews and the historical land of Israel. If we found another people from another land that we thought these words applied to, then they would not be fulfillment of these Biblical prophecies, because Moses' words apply ONLY apply to the Jews. Not that I believe there are any other people with a similar history you could even start to apply the words to. But if you could, they would not work as fulfillment, because it can be only one people exiled from and returned to one land, returned from the lands where they were intensely hated. Not hated by a Hister, but rather by the actual Hitler and many other folks. Other prophets say returned from the remote north, which on a map is Russia, Poland and Germany, the lands of the Holocaust.

However, if anyone can produce something similar written long ago about the Cherokees or the Mormons or the vikings or the Germans or whoever, and then they actually had a history very similar to that, then it will get my attention and I will doubt my claim. Most especially if it is about the Cherokees who have also returned to Georgia, USA to reclaim it, despite the fact of being surrounded by many millions of folks from other states who constantly declare a hatred for them and the determination to exterminate them. Then I will concede that Moses' words could have just been luck, or the interpretation just wishful thinking on my part.

What do you think? Maybe I'm just whacked out? Regardless, thanks for your comments to my lonely thread! :D
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#13

Post by KINGLONESTAR » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:43 am

You really should put some more thought into this. [emoji12]


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Re: Moses: what did he know, and when did he know it?

#14

Post by BillyBob66 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:21 pm

KINGLONESTAR wrote:You really should put some more thought into this. [emoji12]


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I know, I am just not getting deep enough into it! What I need is more detail! ;)
Rom8:21the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption23..but..we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit.. groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body

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