Do We Really Need Cozies?

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Do We Really Need Cozies?

#1

Post by sarge » Wed May 04, 2016 7:38 am

At about the same time as I was finishing up the cozy for the bowl bags, a member here at HammockHangers.net said he'd always wondered if cozies were really required. That got me to cogitating on the subject and I decided to test to come up with an answer, and that answer might surprise you. In the course of the testing, we run the bowl bags from Make Your Gear through another set of high heat tests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Y81oD2G4A


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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#2

Post by UncleMJM » Wed May 04, 2016 8:14 am

What do you mean we don't need cozies? We've always done it that way! Sacrilege.

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#3

Post by GregD » Wed May 04, 2016 9:59 am

Even stoves are unnecessary for hot meals on the trail:

http://gossamergear.com/wp/stoveless-camping-crotch-pot

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#4

Post by gmcpcs » Wed May 04, 2016 10:15 am

I use a Foil pouch for quart ziploc. I do have an insulated wrap on my Foster's coffee cup though. It's necessary.

Crotch pot + NSFW :lol:

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#5

Post by Idaho Hanger » Wed May 04, 2016 6:52 pm

Good video, very interesting.

I'm going to keep carrying mine though. I like hot food and 30-40F overnight is a normal occurrence.

On another note, I was a professional audio engineer for over a decade and would like to offer up any help if you would like it. Typically a sound like the high pitched hum that's always present is an issue of a difference in ground voltage between two devices, probably camera to computer. If they are plugged in to power in different places or the camera is running on a battery this could be the cause of that noise. PM me if you would like some assistance fixing the issue. While it may be a bit tricky to track down the solution is probably cheap/free and easy.
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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#6

Post by sarge » Wed May 04, 2016 9:19 pm

I had to watch the edited video here to catch the hum. Its actually the fan that the Little Colonel keeps running in the kitchen. Actually, there's one in every room except the Gear Bunker, Gear Assembly Area, and the Comm Center. I've gotten used to it as white noise.
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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#7

Post by Guest » Thu May 05, 2016 5:07 pm

What about making that bag Velcro together on the sides and getting multi use as a sit pad or supplemental pad in the hammock? Might make up for the additional bulk...

Ive got four uses Ina bag so far and things like rice and Raman cook cooziless just fine for my tastes. I'll probably get a chance this weekend to get some tests in and I will add my numbers to the thread.

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Do We Really Need Cozies?

#8

Post by Mophead » Thu May 05, 2016 5:07 pm

What about making that bag Velcro together on the sides and getting multi use as a sit pad or supplemental pad in the hammock? Might make up for the additional bulk...

Ive got four uses on a bag so far and things like rice and Raman cook cooziless just fine for my tastes. I'll probably get a chance this weekend to get some tests in and I will add my numbers to this thread.

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#9

Post by sarge » Thu May 05, 2016 10:03 pm

Mophead wrote:What about making that bag Velcro together on the sides and getting multi use as a sit pad or supplemental pad in the hammock? Might make up for the additional bulk...

Ive got four uses on a bag so far and things like rice and Raman cook cooziless just fine for my tastes. I'll probably get a chance this weekend to get some tests in and I will add my numbers to this thread.
Now, that's a good idea for the cozy. I was going to justify the boxy one as a sit pad until the question of are they really needed came up. Its an interesting problem too.

Need to get my cogitator syncapated and figger that out.

I finished recording the test phase of the stain and flavor retention video, and have gotten a total of 10 uses out of it so far, which makes them more economical than regular freezer bags, and definetly more LNT. I'm fairly confident I can get 10 more.
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Do We Really Need Cozies?

#10

Post by Mophead » Thu May 05, 2016 10:37 pm

I'd like to try some coozie vs no coozie tests and and try to figure out how much the coozi will improve it. If its negligible I could ditch the coozie.

If it turns out it helps certain types of meals or especially if it helps a lot in in colder weather it would be good addition being as it doubles as a pad.

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#11

Post by Scuba » Thu May 05, 2016 11:49 pm

The other part of the Cozie you are neglecting to talk about is that it protects your tender digits from the boiling hot bag and the food within.
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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#12

Post by sarge » Fri May 06, 2016 7:35 am

Mophead wrote:I'd like to try some coozie vs no coozie tests and and try to figure out how much the coozi will improve it. If its negligible I could ditch the coozie.

If it turns out it helps certain types of meals or especially if it helps a lot in in colder weather it would be good addition being as it doubles as a pad.
Thanks for watching! I have no doubt that it helps in winter weather. When we saw the results frim the refrigerator vs the room temperature andout doors we noticed that we lost 40 degrees in a 48 degree environment vs 30 degrees in 77 and 99 respectively. I also think the cozy would reduce the temperature loss. But the test was done to see if thetemperature loss was extreme enough to make the food inedible, or at least distasteful. What I think they showed was that at temperatures of 48 and above, and if the food is consumed as soon as its ready, the answer is no. I'd not consider my noodles to be inedible at 160 degrees, or more edible at 175.

So what I came up with is that I'll bring the cozy in winter months and leave it home during most of the rest of the year.
Scuba wrote:The other part of the Cozie you are neglecting to talk about is that it protects your tender digits from the boiling hot bag and the food within.
Actually, I didn't find that to be a problem. The size and shape of the bag let me handle it pretty well without having to get anyway near the contents.
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Do We Really Need Cozies?

#13

Post by Mophead » Fri May 06, 2016 8:36 am

Scuba wrote:The other part of the Cozie you are neglecting to talk about is that it protects your tender digits from the boiling hot bag and the food within.
I normally use a folded up bandana as a pot grabber and just hold the bag with it after. Simple meals will certainly cook. I think a lot of personal preference is involved here. But my question is does a cozie really solve what it's intended to solve or is it a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

To ask the question a different way: what is more important for cooking? Temperature of the water or cook time? Both, I know, but will 160F water seep into food THAT much slower? If it turns out temperatures greater than 160F aren't critical could a cozie still save its weight in fuel?

In winter and colder weather I am always carrying extra clothes. Could a hat or extra fleece layer be just as good of a cozie as reflectix?

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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#14

Post by sarge » Fri May 06, 2016 8:52 am

Mophead wrote:
Scuba wrote:The other part of the Cozie you are neglecting to talk about is that it protects your tender digits from the boiling hot bag and the food within.
I normally use a folded up bandana as a pot grabber and just hold the bag with it after. Simple meals will certainly cook. I think a lot of personal preference is involved here. But my question is does a cozie really solve what it's intended to solve or is it a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

To ask the question a different way: what is more important for cooking? Temperature of the water or cook time? Both, I know, but will 160F water seep into food THAT much slower? If it turns out temperatures greater than 160F aren't critical could a cozie still save its weight in fuel?

In winter and colder weather I am always carrying extra clothes. Could a hat or extra fleece layer be just as good of a cozie as reflectix?
Well, keep in mind that the water temp ends up at 160 after 15 minutes, and that you're able to start at 212 b/c these bags withstand higher heat, so I think any effect of temp/time is pretty much a wash.

The cozy makes sense to me as long as you need it to support the freezer bag. Any added insulative effect is just a bonus, IMO. But now that there's a lightweight bag that ends up costing less than freezer bags and stands by itself without support, I think there's not enough beneficial effect to support the added 2 ounces.

I guess I'll do a side by side test, with these bags, inside cozy vs outside cozy and get that data into the equation.
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Re: Do We Really Need Cozies?

#15

Post by Mophead » Fri May 06, 2016 10:12 pm

sarge wrote: Well, keep in mind that the water temp ends up at 160 after 15 minutes, and that you're able to start at 212 b/c these bags withstand higher heat, so I think any effect of temp/time is pretty much a wash.

The cozy makes sense to me as long as you need it to support the freezer bag. Any added insulative effect is just a bonus, IMO. But now that there's a lightweight bag that ends up costing less than freezer bags and stands by itself without support, I think there's not enough beneficial effect to support the added 2 ounces.

I guess I'll do a side by side test, with these bags, inside cozy vs outside cozy and get that data into the equation.
Good point about the starting temp. Water cools faster the hotter it is... if that makes sense. So the curve of cooling water is going to look like a negative exponent. You wouldn't be at 212 for very long, maybe not even by the time you poured into the bag. But your cook temp will average much higher than 160. If you noticed by the time the water was out of the microwave to the time you got starting temp you are at about a 15 degree loss (assuming the water was at 212 which I think is reasonable) That's about half the loss experienced during the 15min cook time and maybe happened in 2 minutes? I like how you did your tests, it has me thinking about this subject differently now.

FWIW The more I read and think about this, especially the refrigerator test, I wonder if reflectix is even a suitable material for this task if one were to go with a coozie. Is a food bag really losing heat through radiant loss (reflectix is a radiant barrier) or could it be conductive loss from the bag setting on the cold shelf of the fridge? If a food bag is really losing its heat through radiant loss then a space blanket with an air gap from the bag should work equally as well.

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